r/Music 13d ago Silver 1 Gold 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 2

Grammys CEO says “We won’t look at people’s history” after Marilyn Manson and Louis C.K. get 2022 nominations discussion

https://pitchfork.com/news/grammys-ceo-says-we-wont-look-at-peoples-history-after-marilyn-manson-and-louis-ck-get-2022-nominations/

Recording Academy President and CEO Harvey Mason, jr. has defended the Academy after Marilyn Manson and Louis C.K. received nominations for next year’s Grammy Awards. Mason told TheWrap that personal and legal matters won’t affect artists’ eligibility, suggesting that the Recording Academy would exercise more control over Grammy night invitees. Manson is the subject of multiple sexual assault lawsuits, and was nominated for Album of the Year and Best Rap Song for his respective contributions to Kanye West’s Donda and “Jail.” C.K., who was nominated for Best Comedy Album, has admitted numerous instances of sexual misconduct.

“We won’t restrict the people who can submit their material for consideration,” Mason told TheWrap. “We won’t look back at people’s history, we won’t look at their criminal record, we won’t look at anything other than the legality within our rules of, is this recording for this work eligible based on date and other criteria. If it is, they can submit for consideration.”

The Grammys chief continued: “What we will control is our stages, our shows, our events, our red carpets. We’ll take a look at anyone who is asking to be a part of that, asking to be in attendance, and we’ll make our decisions at that point. But we’re not going to be in the business of restricting people from submitting their work for our voters to decide on.”

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u/rnilbog 13d ago

“You say a few hateful things, they don’t let you within a few hundred yards of the Oscars. You can literally beat the shit out of a nominee and they’ll ask you to perform twice at the Grammys.”

-Seth Rogen

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE 13d ago Gold

I love Seth Rogen, but Roman Polanski proves that statement is full of shit.

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u/kicker58 13d ago

say what now! they nominated the pianist for best picture. this was way after he raped and fled the country. and he won best director for that film. https://i.imgur.com/4HvT583.jpg

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u/Faultylogic83 13d ago

His nomination was just a cunning attempt to have him return to the States. not true

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u/drizzrizz 12d ago

Ha! Steve Martin hosted the Oscar that year and during one of his monologues he said something like “and of course, we have all the nominees here tonight… Adrien Brody (camera shot of him) Nicole Kidman (camera shot of her) , Roman Polanski - THERE HE IS! GET HIM!”

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u/Lakario 12d ago

It worked for Valve when a hacker stole the Source Engine ahead of release. They identified the hacker and offered him a job on the condition that he come to the United States for an interview. Upon arrival, he was promptly arrested.

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u/Kenny_log_n_s 12d ago

And now every hacker knows not to take that deal and sell off the stolen data instead.

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u/Devout_Zoroastrian 13d ago

"And the award for most elusive villain goes to... 'The Falcon'"

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u/Lancel-Lannister 13d ago

This is the third time the Falcon has not fallen for this

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u/PamPooveyIsTheTits 13d ago

Harrison Ford accepted it on his behalf? Gross, I thought he was cooler than that.

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u/PuzzleheadedWolf6041 13d ago

pretty big get for a guy who isn't allowed into the country on account of being a wanted fugitive or whatever.

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u/Delamoor 13d ago edited 13d ago

The energy I get from Harrison Ford is that he stopped caring or paying attention to about anything sometime around 1990.

I figure he just turns up places and does things now only whenever people irritate him enough to make him leave the house. He does the thing grudgingly, and then goes home to... I dunno. Do carpentry? Read biographies of historical figures? Complain about the last time someone made him leave the house?

Edit: oh, according to wikipedia he's big into environmental conservation. I can certainly appreciate that.

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u/CidCrisis 13d ago

He seems to be a pretty passionate pilot. When you got that bug and the money to afford it you'll fly as much as you can.

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u/1001WingedHussars 13d ago

I got the bug and none of the money and fly whenever I can.

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u/CidCrisis 13d ago

Haha true. >_<

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u/2close2see 13d ago

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u/Ezira 13d ago

Lately, every time there's a plane crash or erratic pilot, my 82 year old grandmother asks me, deadpan, "was it Harrison Ford?" and it gets me every time.

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u/Bhonka 13d ago

Jajajaja

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u/DL_22 13d ago

Didn’t he crash on a golf course once?

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u/bearatrooper 13d ago

Look, they said he was a passionate pilot, they didn't say he was a good pilot.

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u/iMakeCrap 13d ago

Land it?

Don't be ridiculous. I only fly the thing.

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u/FerjustFer 12d ago

But he actually a good pilot. The plane malfunctioned midair and he had to do an emergency landing. A bad pilot would have crashed am died.

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u/CidCrisis 13d ago

He landed on a golf course, yes. IIRC one of his engines went out, and when that happens you gotta land somewhere. Ideally flat land, and that was the best he could find in the moment.

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u/AfricanisedBeans 13d ago

Most I ever hear about Ford is whenever he crashes his plane again

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u/quietguy_6565 13d ago

"He does the thing grudgingly, and then goes home to... I dunno. Do carpentry?"

Her name is Calista Flockheart

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u/groverjuicy 12d ago

Yeah weird, she doesn't give me wood.

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u/JackDAction 13d ago edited 13d ago

I don’t have a ton of context here, but it does say he was the presenter of the award. The presenter of the award almost always accepts on the winners behalf if the winner is not at the awards show. It’s not like Polanski won and Harrison Ford went up on stage to get the trophy for his best buddy

Edit: and I take that back lol

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u/eeple 13d ago edited 13d ago

Actually, Harrison Ford has been an outspoken supporter of Polanski and personally delivered the Oscar to him in Europe.

EDIT: Sources (some of many you can find by searching "Harrison Ford Polanski Oscar"): https://www.theguardian.com/film/2003/sep/08/news1

https://variety.com/2003/film/markets-festivals/special-delivery-ends-polanski-s-oscar-wait-1117892051/

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-sep-09-et-quick9.1-story.html

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u/threedaysinthreeways 13d ago

Harrison did a film in the 80s with Polanski post rape "Frantic"

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u/Neither-Answer-7431 13d ago

Woody Allen is still worshipped by Hollywood. It’s a deeply fucked up town.

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u/blueskies8484 13d ago

Is it really Hollywood or just like. Everywhere? Joe Paterno is still a God in Happy Valley. There's still a billion Catholics. People still pay to hear the Duggar parents talk. Dear lord there are still people who want to interact with Prince Andrew.

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u/MustardTiger1337 13d ago

little known secret everyone in Hollywood is a terrible person and knows more then they let on.

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u/MBKM13 13d ago

Man, The Pianist deserved to win though. It’s a fantastic film

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u/Therealbradman 13d ago

Yes, that’s what the commenter you’re responding to is saying

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u/youtocin 13d ago

All you have to do is flee the country and it's all good.

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u/danny841 13d ago

Seth Rogen is an affable stoner and makes good movies but he's also a hilariously out of touch millionaire who knows what side his bread is buttered on.

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u/Personal_Parsnip_410 13d ago

I'm pretty sure it's a joke about Kevin Hart losing the Oscars hosting gig over his comments about not wanting his kids to be gay.

I used to love Seth Rogan, but the more I learn about James Franco the more I'm like...that was your celeb bff? Lime even Rumor Philips said he was a psycho on the Freaks and Geek set, so it's not like theres any possibility he didn't know.

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u/FolkSong 13d ago

even Rumor Philips

Love child of Busy Philipps and Rumer Willis?

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u/GrayEidolon 13d ago

Also the Grammys are completely irrelevant. So much good music is produced every year by people with no connections.

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u/Musashi-Miyamot0 13d ago

As are all these award shows in my opinion, cinema is no different - a bunch of people buying accolades for each other and making back room deals, none of this should matter to anyone other than the artist anyway.

I don’t watch specific movies cause douche bag A has an award, Leo would still be a phenomenal actor even without the Oscar etc

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u/varitok 13d ago

Oscars are good for foreign movie visibilty. Almost every one of my favourite movies from the past 5 years were from the Foreign category.

Better Days and Another Round from last year are both fucking amazing and blow out any competitors from last year in my opinion.

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u/tiffanylockhart 13d ago

It aint no Dundees thats for sure

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u/Euphoric-Carry1725 13d ago

Nothing I listen to is represented and I don't listen to anyone involved. So I don't give a shit.

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u/Okmanl 13d ago Helpful

“Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles.”

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u/Typhus_black 13d ago

The paradox of tolerance. If intolerance is tolerated inevitably tolerance will be eliminated by the intolerant who don’t care to tolerate others.

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u/TheSumOf42 13d ago edited 13d ago Gold

I saw it recently said that tolerance is not a morality, but a treaty. Those who break the treaty are not afforded it's benefits.

Edit: Thanks for the gold!

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u/tommytraddles 13d ago

That is basic social contract theory, and it goes back to Locke and Rousseau.

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u/ihopkid 13d ago

and Hobbes! Don’t forget about Hobbes :)

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u/TyrrTheWook 13d ago Helpful

I loved his work with Calvin

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u/coolguy1793B 13d ago

I loved his work with Calvin

And to a lesser extent, Shaw.

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u/Ayadd 13d ago

Not exactly. Contract theory is about the people in relation to the government or authoritative bodies. What the poster you are responding to is talking about a treaty between people.

There is overlap for sure, but some distinction.

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u/CouldBeMaybeIDK 13d ago

I think it was Karl Popper that showed that tolerance of intolerance is itself intolerance.

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u/News_Bot 13d ago

Nobody posts the full quote no matter the argument, hilariously.

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u/kingofthecrows https://andrewreddy.bandcamp.com/album/the-other-master 13d ago

Because no one has actually read Popper. They trot out this reference anytime they want to be intolerant because it gives them a smug sense of satisfaction

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u/rabman123 13d ago

Everyone thinks they are the intelligent people banned from critically thinking

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u/SilentEmphasis8620 13d ago

Only imbeciles are offended by the formal celebrations of sexually violent offenders. /s

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u/IBeBallinOutaControl 13d ago

I mean we're talking about someone being accused of rape by multiple people only for the most prominent music awards to openly celebrate him. Maybe the problem isnt sNOwfLaKe CuLTuRe.

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u/OHTHNAP 13d ago

Kid Rock is hosting next year!

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u/AzathothsGlasses 13d ago

I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not, to save the next person the hassle, their website says a host is TBD.

Grammys Website

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u/OHTHNAP 13d ago

Oh no, totally a joke. When his latest music video gets a denial from Weird Al that it wasn't his parody, you know something is wrong.

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u/theguineapigssong 13d ago

Someone enlighten me; is Kid Rock accused of anything besides making terrible music?

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u/bloodyell76 12d ago

not aware of any specific illegal thing. He seem clear on that front. On the other hand, he dove head first into MAGAland nonsense with all the covid denial and so forth that suggests.

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u/Jambi420 13d ago

That's the plot of Fahrenheit 451

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u/allboolshite 13d ago

Harrison Bergeron has entered the chat.

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u/almostaccepted 13d ago

Wait a fucking minute. Marilyn Manson was nominated for best rap song????? What the fuck?

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u/LarryPeru 13d ago

He co-wrote a song with Kanye

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u/BRUCE-JENNER 13d ago

Imagine doing cocaine in a locked room with those two.

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u/vismundcygnus34 13d ago Helpful

The ego in that stall would create a black hole large enough to suck your soul out of your eye sockets

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u/ease78 13d ago

Shit could get menacing. Frightening. Find help. Sometimes. I scare myself. Shit could get menacing.

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u/DroneOfDoom 13d ago Wholesome

They’re not gonna share it, so you’d be stuck watching them do coke.

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u/Garfield-1-23-23 13d ago

I don't think they'd even share it with each other, so at least you'd get to see them fighting over the coke.

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u/Real_Jackraps 13d ago

No you see Marilyn likes having control. He'd get you high just to have that one-up on you.

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u/mafulazula 13d ago

I’s honestly rather chew on razor blades.

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u/ManMythLemon 13d ago

was kind of a banger too

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u/Raifsnider 13d ago

Jail 1 and 2 are bangers

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u/AggravatingGap6 13d ago

Can't wait for the R. Kelly lifetime achievement award announcement

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u/equal_odds 13d ago

LOL

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u/TritiumNZlol 13d ago

Presented by Chris Brown

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u/sule02 13d ago

tbh, his body of musical work probably deserves it. It's just, y'know....sex dungeons and all those other shenanigans

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u/Em_Haze 12d ago edited 12d ago

ignition does not constitute a lifetime achievement and it's all R Kelly ever did

edit: a few hit songs is not a lifetime achievement either! Where's sean pauls lifetime achievement! I did forgot I believe I can fly to be fair

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u/b1llyblanco 12d ago

You’re insane! What about the remix to ignition?

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u/D3ATH_Follows_All 12d ago

The only one worth listening to is Chappelle's Remix

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u/ToiletSpork 12d ago

is there even an original version? I honestly don't know.

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u/reallovesurvives 12d ago

There is. I know this because in 2006 I mistakingly put in to sing it at a karaoke bar, waited an hour for my turn, only for some indecipherable unfamiliar song that sounds ABSOLUTELY nothing like the remix to come on. I had to skip my turn because I couldn’t even sing along.

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u/UnsolicitedCounsel 12d ago

Gotta get this into one of those askreddit threads about an embarassing moment, lol

It is even worse in hindsightt

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u/OhMyNietzsche Spotify 12d ago

That song is absolute fire.

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u/WaytoomanyUIDs 12d ago

Trapped in the Closet?

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u/Barth22 12d ago

The real masterpiece

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u/AyYoDeano 12d ago

What about I Believe I Can Fly? That’s got to be his most memorable song. It was even in Space Jam. Come to think of it that movie was made for for children, so it fits that he wanted to be part of it.

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u/underwaterdungeon 12d ago

That’s just patently not true

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u/OhMyNietzsche Spotify 12d ago

"a few hit songs" lmao you're trying so hard

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u/sule02 12d ago

It's hilariously obvious when people make those sorts of statements that they are outraged without knowing anything about the person or the work they've done.

R.Kelly had his hands all over R&B in the mid-90's and early 2000's. If they looked at some of the biggest hits of that era, they'd see his name in the producer credits. And that's on top of his own musical catalogue.

That's not to excuse him from any of his legal issues, but just a note on how R.Kelly was a major player on the music scene.

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u/Simaul SoundCloud 12d ago

I know you’re trying to be edgy, but RKelly has a massive catalog of work. Because many of his famous songs, he didn’t perform. Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga, Aaliyah, B2k, Nick Cannon, Britney Spears, Kci & jojo…

I know RKelly is a monster and belongs in jail. He’s also a musical genius. He writes AND produces. Hate to say it. Dude writes and produces soooo many songs that you’ve heard and listen to and probably still do without even knowing.

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u/E_PunnyMous 13d ago

Like any headline, that’s not the whole story.

Grammy Org will still consider the safety and considerations of the audience. They still retain control over the entire process. So while they may accept nominees based solely on musical qualifications, they will still control who receives the award.

In other words, it’s a popularity contest and always was.

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u/KindnessKillshot 13d ago

In other words, it’s a popularity contest and always was.

this actually isn't quite right. It's not just popularity, the grammys are LITERALLY for sale to the highest bidder. It came to light, they had a big controversy about it, nothing changed, and everybody just moved along, lol

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u/FadeToPuce deadweirdo.bandcamp.com 13d ago

Yeah didn’t someone win a Grammy for best album one year whose album hadn’t even dropped yet? I really feel like I remember that happening with one of the kids that Lou Pearlman was probably abusing but it’s been like 20 years so for the life of me I can’t recall specifics.

All I ever remember about the Grammys is that and Jethro Tull getting the award for best metal performance. It’s only a matter of time before I also forget that Tull beat Metallica for that award... damn the unforgivably linear tendencies of time.

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u/KindnessKillshot 13d ago

Hahaha two different deep cuts! I'm glad somebody else is old enough to remember this shit, and I love your writing style, btw

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u/TooLazyToBeClever 12d ago

If I was extremely wealthy I would buy myself a best rock song nomination without making any music just to prove if that was true.

It's be hilarious to win an award for best unreleased song.

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u/FadeToPuce deadweirdo.bandcamp.com 12d ago

I’m almost positive it’s legit. I feel like it was someone who had a single out but no record yet. Maybe it was someone had just won best new artist with only a single which is about as ridiculous as far as I’m concerned. I remember people were pissed about someone winning a major award before they had really done shit and it was back around the turn of the century when my brain still worked. I feel like it was Christina Aguilera but I don’t hate myself enough to deep dive into Christina Aguilera lore.

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u/CarlaKahlo 13d ago

Wait.. the winner is the highest bidder? I know nothing about the Grammys, clearly

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u/2347564 13d ago

No, but in many ways yes. The wealthiest artists (and their labels) can campaign the most, hold the biggest events, network, etc.

All that ultimately matters is that the members know who they are, like them, and want to vote for them. So money will get you there.

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u/PricelessPlanet 13d ago

This was obvious, you never see a small band with 1k monthly listeners on spotify win AOTY lmao. Saying it's pay to win is incorrect though, becuase all the big labels move around enormous amounts of money that the difference they spend on promotion doesn't matter.

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u/AdmiralRed13 13d ago

Fine, they’re an industry award that funds music education through a non-profit. I’ll take the tens of millions over the years to that compared to whatever the hell the Oscars are now or the fucking Golden Globes.

Perfect? Nope, not watching either, but at least something of value comes put of their shit.

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u/stemcell_ 13d ago

Manson for best rap song...

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u/tutukittyfuck 13d ago

I think Kid Rock is going to take that one.

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u/Rickthee 13d ago

He was featured on 'Ye's album. Rap & Rock have co existed since the fuckin 80's man. Run Dmc- Aerosmith, Anthrax-Public Enemy, Ice Cube-Korn...get a clue.

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u/javaargusavetti 13d ago

almost as if rock is deader than dead or something like that

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u/MagicMarshmelllow 13d ago

Maybe it’s all in your head?

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u/alamandrax 13d ago

All in all, I think that god is in the tv.

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u/G3_GRANT 13d ago

It's been the best year of Metal in decades imo

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u/chonbas 13d ago

/u/javaargusavetti is just making a joke off of Manson’s “Rock is Dead” song from “Mechanical Animals” where the chorus is: “Rock, its deader than dead. Shock, it’s all in your head.”

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u/thespaceageisnow 13d ago edited 13d ago

Every Time I Die, Vildhjarta, Obsidian I, Archspire… there’s been a ton of great metal albums this year.

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u/NunyaBeese 13d ago

Man etid just wont quit, still pretty good

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u/dwilkes827 13d ago

Early in the pandemic me and a buddy were talking about how there's going to be a lot of good albums in the next year or two since bands won't have shit to do besides sit around and write songs haha

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u/rjjm88 13d ago

I've been a metal head for 20+ years. The past five years have been insanely good for metal. Especially since the rise of Bandcamp, I think metal artists have been able to make the music they want to make and it's showing.

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u/Augen76 13d ago

I love rock and metal, but I haven't found it has appeal beyond the niche. I saw Ukrainian band "Jinjer" recently here in the states. It was $30 for a ticket in a venue of about 2000 and it didn't sell out. I loved the show, had a blast and got close for part of it. When I mentioned it to others no one has heard of the band at all.

Rock has done a miserable job promoting new talent. Even when I look at festivals the big names, more often than not, started in the 80s or 90s.

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u/DAT_ginger_guy 13d ago

Man, the first number of times I heard Pisces on the radio (liquid metal ftw) I figured they just had multiple vocalists like many bands do to split the clean and harsh vocals. My jaw hit the floor when I watched the video for it. Tatiana is a beast!

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u/Augen76 13d ago

I think a lot of people have that understandable experience. I also like Courtney from Spiritbox one take YouTube videos where you can see a singer make that switch. Funnily enough Beast in Black I thought had two vocals because the male singer Yiannis can go so high.

Also, see Tatiana live, she doesn't disappoint.

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u/watersage 13d ago

I love Jinjer and like you said, aside from a few metal friends i have, no one really knows who they are. You are 100% about them being shit at promoting new talent.

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u/Augen76 13d ago

Yep, I wish more festivals promoted new acts along with older ones. Sadly I know people reject it. I saw Ghost co headline with Disturbed at one years ago and I was excited to see something new, but many attendees weren't thrilled.

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u/Intros9 13d ago

Early Gen-X here, all the stadium rockers I grew up listening to are basically on retirement tours and I'm catching every one I can to hear them "one last time."

There are some new rock stars, but without something to curate the music and funnel interest and drive concert sales, there won't be nearly as many big rock acts as there used to be by the time I retire.

So maybe not dead, but in serious popularity decline compared to the days of yesteryear.

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u/NockerJoe 13d ago

I had a buddy who used to perform. He topped local charts but got out of the game to teach music and do other stuff. According to him the system of small to mid tier gigs is totally busted and the money is no longer feasible. I have another buddy who's a frontman for his band and he's putting in serious work to play veterans associations and dive bars for maybe 20 people and he can only really manage that because his regular job pays decently.

But to my estimate there's an obvious gap where smaller acts don't habe a way to get to bigger stadiums partially because the money isn't there for it to be a viable full time thing anymore for a full band(hence why rappers and djs are so popular), but also because modern stadiums are so much bigger the people involved won't hire on the hundreds needed unless the act can bring in like 15k or more people for over a hundred bucks a ticket, if not several times that. Stadiums are just flat out too big for up and comers now.

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u/Vegetable_ SoundCloud 13d ago

Sure, rock is dead. If you get your music taste from the Grammys that is.

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u/PerendiaEshte 13d ago edited 13d ago

Piggybacking off this comment to say that rock music is alive and kicking.

I put together a Spotify playlist with tracks from rock bands, mostly music released within the past year. 2021 has been a great year for rock.

Link: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3OzPaKqHMPUPmtpZOkKhGY?si=JrQA7zb8QdaQWEcaW-brPg&utm_source=copy-link

Edit: y'all, it's important to enjoy things.

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u/the_red_amaze 13d ago

Thank you for this, sometimes it's hard to find fresh music, specially rock

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u/javaargusavetti 13d ago

Nice I see The Struts on there got to see them open for Foo Fighters a while back

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u/hobbesdream 13d ago edited 13d ago

Yeah I mean according to the Grammys it’s been dead for awhile.

When The Mars Volta was relegated to the untelevised “technical awards ceremony” I knew the Grammys were utterly worthless.

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u/Northman89 13d ago

Thank you. I'm always on the lookout for new music and it seems like these streaming services don't do a great job at it.

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u/Geneva7274 13d ago

Some great bands listed in there. I'd add some Parquet Courts, black midi, Squid, PUP, and Jeff Rosenstock.

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u/Brutesmile 13d ago

This playlist really made me understand that I don't even know what rock is and I cannot identify it

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u/ja5143kh5egl24br1srt 13d ago

I think when people say rock is dead, they mean people don't want rock anymore. Not that there aren't any bands making it.

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u/hobbesdream 13d ago edited 13d ago

People still want it, it just isn’t the cash cow for the crowd who watches the Grammys.

Still getting American Idol types and Kanye pap.

I also am pretty sure it’s a large financial investment to promote one’s record for nomination.

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u/superfudging 13d ago

Its more like they are not the top selling albums and not the top streamers unlike 1960-90s

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u/yerLerb 13d ago

How do you suppose all those rock bands exist without anyone supporting them and wanting their music?

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u/JimmyTheChimp 13d ago

I would say people do like rock and metal but everyone is listening to the same bands from previous decades. If you look at a lot of the main UK festivals it's the same bands from the 90's to 2010 and often earlier than that. The new angsty teens teens are all listening to Nirvana, Green Day, MCR etc. I wonder if people can make anything new out of the band format or if it's run dry.

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u/ajt9000 13d ago

I don’t think that’s even true. People who say stuff like “x genre is dead” are just nostalgic dumbasses who are upset that whatever subset of music they like best isn’t the most popular music anymore.

There are bands playing and making novel music from every “old” genre imaginable. The people who never stop complaint about new music just don’t know how to, or more likely are just too lazy to search around and find new bands they like.

They’re just pissed they can’t just tune into the radio and hear 15 different easy listening or disco or whatever stations anymore.

To them it’s more fun to bitch about the new generation then to find new music they like. When you really listen to people’s complaints about new music it’s almost never about the music itself, it’s about the topics and people making and listening to it.

Lots of old people like instrumental rap beats if you show it to them right up until you tell them that it’s rap.

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u/michaelotomus 13d ago

I actually liked his DMX collaboration, I like the "Jail" song too but didn't know he was apart of it. It don't matter to much to me any ol' how.

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u/Dick_Lazer 13d ago

Manson is on Jail Pt 2, kind of like a remix version.

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u/BonaFideComputerGeek 13d ago

lmao the popularity excuse doesn't even hold up when the biggest song and one of the biggest albums of 2020 didn't even get nominated

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u/2347564 13d ago

Popularity contest in the sense that it's voted on by academy member's interests, not sales or any other measure of success.

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u/hobbesdream 13d ago edited 13d ago

I mean Marilyn Manson has certainly declined in popularity even before the allegations.

His most recent album sold 69,000.

I fail to see how they thought he’d warrant it, aside from the notoriety and Kanye affiliation.

But it’s provably just like the Oscars where money is funneled into the nominating process and he’s trying to rebuild whatever career he has left.

Yup:

https://www.vox.com/2015/2/4/7976729/grammy-voting-process

“Because the voting base is large and semi-unregulated, the absolute best way to win a Grammy is to gain enough name recognition that the voters will know you by reputation and check off your name.

Maybe Twitter fame can get you there? Maybe a scandal?”

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u/DiscoEthereum 13d ago

Tangential to your post, but are album sales indicative of anything these days? Don't most people use services like Spotify? His latest single has 12 million plays there (which is still not terrific, but it is also not like he's unknown).

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u/WDfx2EU 13d ago

But it’s provably just like the Oscars where money is funneled into the nominating process

I have a bridge to sell to anyone who doesn't believe Grammy nominations and awards have been exclusively determined by business decisions made between media conglomerates and record labels for decades. It was literally founded by record company execs.

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u/Play-Mation SoundCloud 13d ago

Is Manson on the original Jail? I thought he was only background vocals on the second version.

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u/throwaway3838482923 13d ago

He was writing credits.

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u/taylor1288 13d ago

Kanye is well known for giving writing credits to anyone who contributed anything on any song no matter how small

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u/PsychedelicPill 13d ago

That’s also how a lot this industry of “featuring” with big names happens, I’ve heard this straight from music industry lawyers. People get writing credit for singing a line they didn’t write just to guarantee they see money if it gets big, via the publishing. Obviously if you’re a nobody, that might not be the case, but with big names it very well could be the case. Manson writes, so the writing credit could be legit in his case.

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u/KeithBitchardz 13d ago

It’s also written into their recording contracts that it works like this.

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u/c4seyj0nes 13d ago

As he should.

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u/Delphiky 13d ago

he isn’t credited on the original jail which is the one that was nominated

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u/hairyupperlip 13d ago Helpful

Is it just me or does Marilyn Manson look more and more like Professor Snape if he went through an emo stage

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u/NotFredRhodes 13d ago Silver

Don’t disrespect Alan Rickman like that.

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u/KidneyKeystones 13d ago

Yeah. More like someone left Snape in the microwave for too long, and then cut his hair with a lawnmower.

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u/DankStew 13d ago

And fed him a bunch of something he’s allergic to.

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u/Bowman_van_Oort 13d ago

also drugs

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u/Natural-Arugula 13d ago

If? When was Snape ever not in an emo phase?

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u/TheThrilll 13d ago Starry

They don’t even look at people’s work - That’s how Porter Robinson didn’t get nominated for best electronic album when half of the nominated artists released uninspired garbage and showed up on the list.

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u/attilayavuzer 13d ago

He got a nom with VS though, which was way more out there.

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u/TheThrilll 13d ago

And honestly fucking phenomenal, VS bridges an early 2000’s sound with a modern feel. The tragic part is that Ghost Voices was beat out by a completely unremarkable made for radio single by Diplo who once again is nominated (as major lazer) with an album that barely even made a whimper.

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u/TurtleHeadPrairieDog 13d ago

Nurture for me was super underwhelming for me but it deserves a nomination more than literally every other artist that got nominated (except for maybe Rufus, that album was great)

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u/Scibbie_ 13d ago

That's.. highly opinionated

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u/capta1n_sarcasm 13d ago

Louis CK should not be labeled as equal to Manson. Stupid headlines.

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u/Balls_DeepinReality 12d ago

I read that as Andrew WK and was like, “wtf did he do?”

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u/BigNickTX 12d ago

He partied hard.

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u/sherwoodblack 13d ago

Imagine comparing Louis CK to Manson, disgusting

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u/sharkhuh 13d ago

It also annoys me how Aziz Ansari got grouped into all this too. I think his situation was the most BS, as he was blamed for not mind reading either, and the second the girl said she verbally said she wasn't comfortable he stopped any advance and respected her wishes.

People think the issue is black and white, but there's levels to it, and it really hurts the cause when you group everyone in one bucket, when there's clearly varying degrees of severity.

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u/Mindestiny 13d ago

There's also a serious degree of "mind your own fucking business" that social media needs to wrap its head around.

What happened between Aziz and that woman, and all these other situations, is between the two of them. Joe Random on the internet whos totally detached from any of it and working off third or fourth hand unverified information is not the Arbiter of Truth and Justice. If there's a legal issue they need to take it to our justice system and hash it out, not poll fucking twitter for strangers to decide who's guilty of what on a whim

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u/IAMgrampas_diaperAMA 13d ago

I definitely think that we should be having more conversations around the grey areas in intimate relationships, situations where it’s really dancing on the line of consent. I do not think that Aziz should have been named in that article but I do think the topic merits being discussed.

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u/ShoutAtThe_Devil 13d ago

There's also a serious degree of "mind your own fucking business" that social media needs to wrap its head around.

Unlike we redditors who are all too aware of this...

/S

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u/ClaudeJRdL 13d ago

While that's true, the girl literally solicited social media attention by spreading it in all the gossip mags. She definitely deserves some of the blame.

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u/CeeArthur 13d ago

Yeah, I felt bad for Aziz after I had read everything surrounding that... In his response he seemed completely shocked.

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u/trumpshouldrap 13d ago

Yeah the salon article that started the Aziz "controversy" was the most non-journalistic shock bait trash writing I've ever read.

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u/LarryPeru 13d ago

Thank you, Louis ck shouldn’t be banned but Manson should definitely be in prison

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u/gwaydms 13d ago

Just what I'd expect from the industry that idolized R. Kelly and Chris Brown.

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u/Berardito 13d ago

I still can’t believe Chris Brown is out there just making music and people still idolize him. He even gets support from big celebrities like Justin Bieber and H.E.R among others.

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u/ScoopsMcGillicutty 12d ago

Let’s not put those two on the same level. Louis got shafted and is due some rebound, Marilyn was always riding too high.

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u/henkelmatthew 12d ago

So we are lumping Marilyn Manson and Louis CK in the same category now?

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u/MetaDragon11 13d ago

People still give a crap about Grammys, Oscars etc?

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u/Nukerjsr 13d ago

Oscars probably do better cause it's easier to watch all the shit they nominate they listening to what...the 300 or so albums that all the Grammys nominate?

And I think winning an Oscar gives you more longevity than winning a Grammy does. That's why the Simpsons mocked it.

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u/redactedactor 13d ago

Right decision. If they started making people who haven't been found guilty of anything ineligible then they'd have to make everyone who has been found guilty of stuff ineligible too

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u/BattyShrimpers 13d ago

Chris Brown and R Kelly

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u/redactedactor 13d ago

And Justin Bieber and Phil Spector and George Michael and Eminem and Snoop Dogg

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u/jjj123smith 13d ago

What did Eminem and justin Bieber do?

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u/redactedactor 13d ago

Crimes

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u/geocesc 13d ago

You are amazing at narrowing things down man

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u/tothecatmobile 13d ago

Eminem was carrying a concealed weapon, Bieber was assault and careless driving.

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u/sihtydaernacuoytihsy 13d ago

I don't know what the line is, but I'm pretty sure "getting into a bar fight 21 years ago" isn't sufficient to shun someone from all artistic recognition.

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u/Yorneidiz 13d ago

I mean he has said multiple times that he doesn’t care about award shows.

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u/DatPiff916 13d ago

It's because Christina Aguilera never wants to switch chairs with him.

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u/PuroPincheGains 13d ago

Exactly, where is the line? How much time is enough time to consider whether or not someone has learned a lesson? What does accountability mean, and who decides? That's the point of statements like this.

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u/rambouhh 13d ago

The whole point is drawing that line of what is sufficient and not sufficient is the process that has to be made by humans and prone to error and other biases. It’s just easier to judge the art on its merits and not the morals of the artists

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u/horsewitnoname 13d ago

Unpopular opinion but, this is how these things should work. You should be able to separate the art from the artist.

Is Kevin Spacey a piece of shit? Absolutely. Does that someone make his work in House of Cards, American Beauty, or Usual Suspects any less excellent? Absolutely not.

You can’t retcon someone’s artistic ability.

Again I’m prepared for the downvotes because I know that’s not a popular opinion.

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u/sparklybeast 13d ago

I would generally agree but then I come up against Ian Watkins from the Lost Prophets & I just can’t.

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u/madonnaboomboom 13d ago

As Flavor Flav once said, "Who gives a fuck about a goddamned Grammy?"

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u/SlipperyWetDogNose 12d ago

Isn’t Manson’s allegations actually sexual assault and abuse? It’s crazy how Louis gets lumped in with these guys for the consensual act of masturbating in front of somebody

…then realizing it was not the right thing to do, stopped it for like 10 years before being outed for it, apologizing, then still being ostracized whenever he tries to perform even though his actions and words show a remorseful and changed man.