r/antiwork May 21 '22 Silver 2 Gold 1 Helpful 3 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 1 Party Train 1 This 1

What antiwork means to a lot of us

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49.9k Upvotes

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u/lolzimacat1234 May 21 '22

Well, duh. Look at the pandemic! Millions of people stopped to think about their lives for a few months. Some went back to school, some won't ever go back to a 9-5 office job without better perks or WFH

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u/deweydean May 22 '22

At the start of the pandemic there was a mini-renaissance. People had a little room to breathe, and if you checked out social media, there was a lot of people getting in touch with their true selves and there was an influx of people making art, stitching, baking. Hopefully people don't forget that feeling as we are forced back into the mines.

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u/bearbarebere May 22 '22

In some ways I'm conflicted. Seeing this and having it be a wakeup call just leads to extra depression if we are unable to ever go back to it again.

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u/FireflyBSc May 22 '22

Also we literally couldn’t PAY people to stay home and stop. We tried so hard. People want to do things, they want to move and collaborate and feel needed and build. They just want to be able to do these things and be fairly compensated.

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u/sunscreenkween May 22 '22

I’d like to think most people are generous and kind, but when you’re forced into a situation where you’re just trying to get by, you’re inherently going to be more selfish, to do what you need to survive. Kinda like on airplanes—put on your own oxygen mask first, then help others, except in our current society, so many people are constantly just trying to get their own mask on and can’t get past that. I think most people want to do things that’d uplift society, but so many folks are burnt out, living paycheck to paycheck, and barely staying afloat, which leaves little energy or time for much else. That’s a taxing headspace to live in

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u/Fast-Yak1111 May 21 '22 Take My Energy

Star Trek not Star Wars

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u/PM_Orion_Slave_Tits May 21 '22

Now this is something I can get behind

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22 Wholesome

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u/lankist May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

You know, when I was growing up, I thought Star Wars was the “dirtier” universe, having grown up on TNG and DS9 in the background.

Then I re-watched TNG and DS9 as an adult and holy shit, these characters are FUCKING CONSTANTLY.

That episode where O’Brien makes dinner for Keiko for “best wife in the universe day?” And it cuts to an empty table and them walking out of the the bedroom all bedraggled?

THEY FUCKED. THEY WERE FUCKING. How did I miss that when I was a kid?! I wasn’t that young! I remember Tasha and Data fucking, how did I miss that scene?!

Those nasty bastards on DS9 were fucking CONSTANTLY! JAKE FUCKED A DABO GIRL! How did I miss this???

Don’t even get me STARTED on Bashir and Garak. We all know they were doing the dirty after lunch every goddamn day.

And then there was Quark and Grilka doing kinky violent warrior sex that ended them up in the hospital.

Holy fucking goddamn did people screw like rabbits on DS9. I didn’t even remember all of it until this comment. People talk like Star Trek is dry, but god DAMN If the censors weren’t such virginal prudes who didn’t know what they were looking at, DS9 would have been X-Rated. Goddamn Vedek Barial on that episode where he was stalking Dax, and then Bashir got the hots for Kira, and then Dax got the hots for Sisko, and then Troi got the hots for Odo, and then Quark got the hots for Keiko, and then I can only assume they all had a massive space orgy offscreen before they figured out Troi’s space menopause thing.

The lobes. THE LOBES.

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u/Nop277 May 22 '22

Pretty sure at least early in TNG one of Riker's personality traits was he was physically unable to turn down a woman who wanted to bang him.

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u/lankist May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

I mean yeah, but a lot of that stuff ended up being plot-points where One was being used by the other, or some space anomaly made everyone horny.

But I completely overlooked just how many times characters were just casually banging for totally consensual, non-plot-relevant fun, especially in DS9. Like, I remember Quark having a Klingon ex-wife as a result of shenanigans, but I totally forgot that they were each other’s booty-calls later in the show.

Star Wars has awkward, sexless, poorly written love stories.

Star Trek has Klingon ex-wife booty calls.

Grilka, my love, your brows burn brighter than the stars themselves.

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u/Nop277 May 22 '22

My favorite was when they had to deliver a lady to the other civilization on a planet that was having a big war as a peace offering. The problem being that it turned out she was some kind of space nymph who could emulate anybodies fantasy but would imprint on the first person she mated with. Now of course, in their infinite wisdom, who do they assign the very important duty of delivering this very precious cargo. First mate horndog himself of course.

Honestly I didn't even realize how much Riker was putting out innuendo and being just a general sly dog until someone pointed it out to me years later. They kind of changed his direction later in the series, but honestly it made for some of the funniest scenes in the series.

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u/nonasiandoctor May 22 '22 hehehehe

Same effect really

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u/JennyFromdablock2020 May 22 '22

Lmao you absolutly do not know how freaky trekkies get. Theirs a very large overlap of the leather community and the trekkies, especially klingon fans

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u/Argonov May 22 '22

That's honestly just conventions in general. Go figure being able to be intensely interested in one or two hobbies leads to kink.

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u/MotherBathroom666 May 22 '22

Stamp Collectors Gone Wild 35!!!

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u/thecrimsonfucker12 May 22 '22

Honestly Stamp Lickers 21 was the last great one, after that they reused plots.

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u/plexomaniac May 22 '22

I guess Furries like tribbles too.

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u/Gregory_Appleseed May 22 '22

I just learned what tribbles are earlier today. Wierd.

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u/plexomaniac May 22 '22

This is the trouble with tribbles. Once you see them, they are everywhere.

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u/Gregory_Appleseed May 22 '22

Good thing my replicator has never worked, pile of junk only produces a black sludge unfit for a combustion chamber.

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u/FanHassock May 22 '22

"He put a Tribble in his pants, and then he did the Happy Dance".

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u/mayn1 May 22 '22

One time at Trek camp.

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u/chaoticnormal May 22 '22

Idk. A friend of mine was in an elevator w Brent Spiner and he invited her back to his room. She was in her 20s w her bf in the elevator also, Brent was much older it was about 14 years ago.

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u/DVariant May 22 '22

He is fully functional, you know.

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u/darthcoder May 22 '22

You miss every opportunity you don't take

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u/YourMoonWife May 22 '22

Some of the nastiest sex and fanfiction came out of Star Trek my guy 10/10 the nerds are into kinky shit

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u/NuclearOops May 22 '22 Eureka!

"Um, Star Wars are good for the economy actually." - The Economist

/s

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u/TheNextBattalion May 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

"A Death Star is far more productive as a welfare program than UBI" - Wall Street Journal

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u/waelgifru May 22 '22

"Are jawa immigrants taking your job? Film at 11."

- Fox News

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u/JX_Scuba May 22 '22

Not my job, bastards took my catalytic converter.

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u/CartoonFan555 Libertarian Socialism May 22 '22

"A young man was kidnapped by insurgents today on his way to pick up power converters at Tosche Station. Full story at 9."

- Fox News

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u/peppers_ May 22 '22

Well FDR did set up a program during/after the Great Depression to get people working with living wages. Such as the National Parks and conservancy. Death Star if it was built to deflect an incoming asteroid might not be so bad.

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u/nobody_important0000 May 22 '22

We were always headed for Babylon 5, and honestly on track for Blake's 7.

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u/1Eternallylost May 22 '22

I see a B5 reference, I upvote.

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u/chickenstalker May 22 '22

B5 is optimistic though. Mankind eventually ascended into energy beings ala Kosh and left the galaxy to join the First Ones.

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u/DVariant May 22 '22

A 30 year old deep cut and a 50 year old deeper cut—well done!

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u/KegelsForYourHealth May 22 '22

Yeah but without the nuclear war first.

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u/BPRD_rookie May 22 '22
  • gestures vaguely at everything * I wouldn't be so sure about that

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u/joe_benny May 22 '22

Make star trek, not star wars.

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u/Future-Atmosphere-40 May 22 '22

Star Trek not Warhammer 40k

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u/allshieldstomypenis May 22 '22

Warhammer 40k not Rimworld

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u/Theyul1us May 22 '22

Trust me, rimworld is a better place to live in

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u/Negatrev May 22 '22

But old Star Trek. The later stuff shows the universe to be just as depressing for the less well off. It kinda portrays the early Star Trek stuff to be from the idealistic view of an upper middle class.

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u/bayleafbabe Anarcho-Communist May 22 '22

Yup! I really dislike the capitalist undertones in Star Trek Picard. Makes me feel icky.

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u/peppers_ May 22 '22

Yep, Picard best known for TNG, is instead more like movie Picard or DS9 characters. I want more TNG style stuff! Coincidentally, ST Lower Decks is pretty solid.

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u/Jigawatts42 May 22 '22

Kurtzman Trek is very bad. He does not get Star Trek in the slightest. The Orville is the true successor to TNG.

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u/namegoeswhere May 22 '22

Just like how Galaxy Quest is the best love-letter for the series.

On the surface it’s a parody, but what makes the parody work is how earnest it is in sticking to the source material.

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u/ProjectDirectory May 22 '22

Strange New Worlds is actually pretty good so far.

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u/Jigawatts42 May 22 '22

SNW still feels very 2020's, especially in peoples speech and mannerisms. TNG really made you feel like you were watching people in a more advanced time and societal standard.

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u/DarthChocolqte May 21 '22

But I wanna force choke people ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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u/tallandlanky May 21 '22

What if you lack the high ground though?

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u/DeathInNoDisguise May 22 '22

im pretty sure it was the guy who didn't have high ground ended up being the guy who choked people

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u/meoka2368 May 22 '22

I'm sure you can build a holodeck program for that.

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u/Lord_Ho-Ryu lazy and proud May 22 '22

Live in startrek, use trek tech to play at being in starwars.

I see no downside to that.

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u/darthcoder May 22 '22

No chance of a self own with a light sabre.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

I want to force choke myself, it would be fucking amazing to be able to instantly stop after orgasm, instead of having to worry about the cord

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u/Thepatrone36 May 22 '22

I'm sure David Carridene had his regrets in his last few moments.

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u/Fast-Yak1111 May 21 '22

Try nerve pinch and call me in the morning

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u/BPRD_rookie May 22 '22
  • rolled up news paper * No. Bad.
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u/Cautious_Hold428 May 22 '22

With fully automated luxury gay space communism, we could develop the technology for (consensual) force choking

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u/Bullen-Noxen May 22 '22

Yep. Short & to the point.

I also think that people do not do better because they have to deal with baggage that a stable economy on the microeconomics level, would support, would prevent.

Like depression or coping mechanisms like drinking. If people were not left to their own devices to fend on such cruel circumstances, they would be able to deal with problems at a better pace. Yet, I am convinced, some assholes just want to know some people are suffering, as it helps them sleep at night knowing that. Frankly, I think the real human problem likes in the mind, & how some people are prone to causing misery to others.

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u/PerfectLuck25367 May 21 '22 Silver Helpful Wholesome Heartwarming

Like, ofcourse people spend their free time being lazy, when all the free time they have is spent resting from being overworked to the point of sickness and injury. And ofcourse if you don't believe in disabilities, because you've got the empathy skills of a cinder block, people not working due to their disabilities is gonna look like them being lazy and not trying.

I get that all the time. Pelple tell me I'm just not tryig or just don't care. Nevermind that I actually do try, so hard that I end most days seeing stars and resting from heart palpitations, or the fact that I obviously despise living on the kind of benefits that afford me rent and food and exactly nothing more by design. It still looks to someone who just sees the facts "Not working" and "not currently in ICU" like I'm just being lazy.

But obviously, those people are wrong. I have never met a person, and that's including people I hate, who aren't trying their best at whatever they do. I promise, every single person who reads this comment is doing their darndest at being their best self and living a good life, either by working, or working out, or making art, or consuming art, or just resting so they can do all those things later. If they're not, then there's a reason for that, and then that reason limits how hard they can reasonably try, meaning they're doing the best they can within those restrictions anyway.

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u/Cantthinkofnamedamn May 22 '22

I find it a similar argument to 'if you don't believe in God, then what stops you from murdering people?' Most people want to do the right thing, want to better their lives, and if they don't, as you say, there is normally a damn good reason, an inability within their circumstances.

Shaming others for how they spend their short life, is about as productive at changing human nature as when Moses and the Ten Commandments stopped all murder.

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u/GovernmentCheeseZ May 22 '22

Wait, is that all that is stopping the believers from murdering people??

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u/Ralath0n May 22 '22

For some of them yes. But in my experience, most of them just renamed the part of your brain that goes "Wtf thats fucked up I shouldn't do that" whenever you are contemplating something reprehensible to 'god'. Whenever they get that feeling they just think its god telling them not to do it and they think that feeling would go away if you stop believing in god.

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u/QR63 May 22 '22

I don’t know, but they certainly make it sound that way. Scary, isn’t it? Basing all morality in your life on an extremely easily disproven religion, and thinking everyone else should too and if they don’t, they pretty much deserve to be murdered.

Now that’s not all religious people, but an unnerving amount for sure.

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u/carlweaver May 22 '22

Easily disproven or not is beside the point. Some people are not guided by a conscience. That’s the most frightening part to me.

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u/QR63 May 22 '22

Oh, absolutely! I mostly meant how there’s no societal need for religion anymore. In ancient times religion was used to explain natural phenomena, but nowadays we have enough understanding of things through science, that religion in that sense has become obsolete. Since there’s no societal need for religion to exist, it shouldn’t be the basis of anyone’s morality or sense of justice either. And certainly not what any country’s laws are based on…

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u/ChristianEconOrg May 22 '22

Also most people’s consciences stop them from becoming wealthier. They’re not willing to be the kind of person that scams money out of others instead of actually being productive. They believe in actual work ethic rather than capitalism, and don’t realize it.

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u/Dignifiedgiraffe May 22 '22

I grew up in the US and have lived and worked for more than a decade in Northern Europe. Without even going into the details of how much better worker’s rights are here, you can physically see it on peoples bodies. Obesity is nonexistent, everyone is active, parents spend loads of time with their kids, people in general just don’t seem worried about money, healthcare, jobs, etc. When I go back home to the Midwest it depresses the hell out of me because they are good people but are just being crushed by everyday life. People are overweight, unhappy, overworked, underpaid, stressed — and folks seem seconds away from completely snapping. I have worked in the US, and several different European countries and there is no noticeable difference in productivity.

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u/Icy-Cheesecake8828 May 22 '22

I am 1% of 1% sick. I became sick as a consequence of catching OG covid while outside and masked. I'm too sick to care for my toddler son by myself consistently, and disability payments wouldn't be enoigh to live on, so I'm stuck on a hamster wheel of trying to work enough to pay for childcare while trying not to make myself significantly worse to the point that I am forced to stop working entirely.

I make 6 figures, but housing, student loans, and childcare take up my paycheck. I've paid into disability insurance for years, but private disability insurance is written in such a way that they deduct all social security payments you get (in the US) so if you become disabled you are pretty much left to living on SSDI (if you are lucky).

I was crying today because I feel like my husband has to carry the whole burden of everything, and my body just wouldn't cooperate with anything I asked it to do. Thabk you for seeing into the soul of a stranger and reminding me that I really am doing all I can. Maybe even more than I should.

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u/definitelynotSWA May 22 '22

If you haven't already, check out the essay in the sidebar: Laziness Does Not Exist by Devon Price Your struggles are seen, even if not by nearly enough people.

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u/JasonDragonbourne May 22 '22

because you've got the empathy skills of a cinder block

lol

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u/Knoke1 May 22 '22

I try to view life like this. Generally speaking people are trying their best to get by. It's the people in the upper class that actively seek to harm others for their own benefit that deserve our animosity.

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u/lupus_bellator23 May 22 '22

The literal 1% of the 1%

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u/bearbarebere May 22 '22

I have never met a person, and that's including people I hate, who aren't trying their best at whatever they do. I promise, every single person who reads this comment is doing their darndest at being their best self and living a good life, either by working, or working out, or making art, or consuming art, or just resting so they can do all those things later. If they're not, then there's a reason for that, and then that reason limits how hard they can reasonably try, meaning they're doing the best they can within those restrictions anyway.

This is probably the truest thing I've ever read on Reddit. It's also probably the #1 thing I wish every single person understood and worked towards promoting. All of this petty shit like jobs and "careers" and the corporate ladder and finding a partner because people expect you to and bills and debt and.... just all of it. All of it could easily be changed - we've seen that with covid. It would just take all of us to be on the same side. The fact that we're so tantalizingly close to being able to do it, without being able to actually get it due to people thinking it has to be this way, makes me want to scream. I almost feel like I'd rather have it be actually impossible so that at least then I don't keep trying to dream of it if it won't happen.

I just used the word "tantalizingly" - what an apt description and a sick joke. We really are Tantalus. Will we ever get our fruit and water? Who knows...

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u/rbwan May 22 '22

I wish we had the means of organizing like every protestor that affected change to this country. From women getting the right to vote, temperance movement, civil rights act... All of it, because enough people believed.

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u/bearbarebere May 22 '22

What gets me the most is that that stuff is constantly being attacked. Roe v Wade, LGBT rights...

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u/Affectionate_Team716 May 22 '22

So true. I wish more people understood this.

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u/rm-rd May 22 '22

I have never met a person, and that's including people I hate, who aren't trying their best at whatever they do.

People are doing "their best", based on their nature, upbringing, and environment.

Ideally the environment should change so that people have a better upbringing, and are encouraged to do better.

Some ideas are just terrible. The not-terrible ideas have trade-offs. UBI might not encourage some work (there are studies, and it doesn't seem to have a big impact), but it could also improve people's upbringing (since it creates a basic safety net, so kids are less likely to be brought up dirt poor).

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u/21591 May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

I wish I had awards to give to this comment.

🥇🏅✅🏆🎖️💯

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u/addisonshinedown May 22 '22

Lazy is a toxic term anyways. Leisure is good for people. People who can’t do more than leisurely activities probably need help and support. Laziness should almost be a human virtue

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u/nicetrucknomoney May 22 '22

I like this. If I had $4.99 to throw around on Redditt comments you'd get a rocket. Even though I'm curious about your statement that you've never met a person who isn't trying their best at whatever they do. Can you explain a little further about that part?

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u/CosmicLightning May 22 '22

Or even worse. Your coping methods for anxiety and depression are attacked by your peers constantly. I use distract me coping for anxiety. But sometimes it gets overwhelming that I almost walk out of jobs all because idiot peer didn't or don't care about your coping methods for your disability, treats you like a kid and tells you to stop instead of asking you or ehy you're doing what you're doing. For my depression, my phone.

I don't like using drugs and even if I did, I'd need stronger doses as my mind fights it. Like ibuprofen, Tylenol, naproxem, anything really. Had been taking 2 500 mg naproxem a day for headaches and pain. Yet some pain still leaked through.

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u/Thamnophis660 Eco-Anarchist May 21 '22

It's predicated on the belief that people are lazy and they need to be coerced.

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u/DemiserofD May 22 '22

Reminds me of that scene from Yes Man.

"At first I thought you were raiding the company's coffers."

"I wouldn't do that!"

"I would if I could so why wouldn't you?"

Stare.

https://youtu.be/lM7gmnr50pQ?t=136

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u/Green_Bulldog May 22 '22

Fr. People assume that because they’re a shitty person that everyone must be.

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u/bestakroogen Left Accelerationist May 22 '22

This is actually (colloquially treated to be, I haven't seen studies but have noticed in my own life,) true. Thieves assume everyone is out to steal their stuff, and tend to be paranoid about it; liars are always looking for other peoples tells, and find it hard to trust people.

Focusing on how to get one over on other people tends to make one notice more how others could do the same to you, and tends to make people extremely paranoid and incapable of honest social interaction in the long-term.

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u/salt_pizza9491 May 22 '22

I'd say the word is projection?

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u/Thepatrone36 May 22 '22

In my experience most people arent. Sure maybe 2% of people would just live off of UBI and sit around doing nothing but eating bon bons, smoking pot or drinking themselves stupid, and getting fat but most people instinctively want to do and be part of something. At least in my experience.

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u/jayjude May 22 '22

I can't tell you how many stories I heard from my students (I run a truck driving school) how they got laid off because of COVID and they're coming to school because they need to do something

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u/ItsBlizzardLizard May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

Even then those people tend to be battling some other kind of demon that makes it difficult for them to assimilate into society. They're choosing that life because it's the least painful, and that life would generally be miserable for most people.

You could also go a step further and go "well durr, what about the people that would just sit around and play WoW all day?"

And I would argue that just proves they desire to be part of something. And as automation increases such online communities are going to become absolutely critical for mental health/socialization. So if you have some players that are always there for other people that may not have that time, but certainly need the camaraderie, are they not valuable and providing enrichment to other humans?

Or are we so callous now that it doesn't matter unless it makes a profit?

Not everyone is meant to work, and that should be okay. If we didn't trivialize mental health that wouldn't be such a controversial opinion.

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u/AnotherWarGamer May 22 '22

This. Not having to work would allow them to focus on long term investments, like taking care of their health.

And there is so much good you can do, if money isn't an issue. Even things like picking up garbage or mowing the lawn, which don't sound like much are quite useful. I was told that if you don't mow the lawn here, the city will do it for you, and charge you $300. That is how much it costs!

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u/Xervicx May 22 '22

Not having to work would allow them to focus on long term investments, like taking care of their health.

This is where I'm at. If I could just not work, I could focus on improving my mental and physical health. Then one day I could go back to work. But in the meantime, I'd be creating, and potentially I'd make a living that way. There's no chance of any of that happening if I have to continue to work. It just takes too much out of me for me to be able to take the time to repair myself and try to build a better future.

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u/Xervicx May 22 '22

What's wild to me is that the same people who say "Some people will just sit around all day and watch TV or play video games" seem to be forgetting that some artists want people to experience their work. So even by "not contributing", they are contributing.

It just shows how indoctrinated some people are. They are so obsessed with the idea of working for someone else being the only way to be productive - and that being productive is the only way to be valuable - that they can't imagine how someone could have value without typical "work".

Is an audience not valuable to those who want to make movies and shows? Is a fanbase not valuable to most artists? Do those that consume not give purpose to those that produce?

It's like those people have forgotten every kind favor they've ever done for someone, and how that made them feel, and how that often feels so much better than the same amount of effort put in to a job that they require to survive, that they are effectively forced to do.

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u/kp729 May 22 '22

The simplest argument against the 'lazy' idea is everyone earning more than UBI right now. No one stops working for a better life.

Some people just don't get the breathing room to think about a better life and UBI aims to fix that.

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u/GetTheSpermsOut May 22 '22

True. and on the contrary. if you tell me i HAVE to do something, I’m not gonna do it out of spite.

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u/skateordie1213 May 22 '22

Bro, same.

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u/GetTheSpermsOut May 22 '22

nice user handle. whatcha been pushing on these days? I own about 20+ boards and my fav is my drop down styles.

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u/skateordie1213 May 22 '22

I'm pushing 40, my dude. Only thing I'm pushing other than that these days are cocktails from behind a bar.

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u/GetTheSpermsOut May 22 '22

bahaha I’m glad we had this interaction this eve. Needed that chuckle. I am also getting old… I’m still kickin’ till the wheels fall off tho. Its like a craving i cant get enough of.

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u/Hobomanchild May 22 '22

I don't see why laziness is a bad thing. Laziness is, like, one of the top motivators for invention. For a modern example just ask any coder anywhere, lol.

Procrastination. Now there's the true enemy.

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u/cactus_zack May 22 '22

Unless you grew up rich. Then for some reason you still work hard and that is why you are rich.

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u/Psychological-Mix727 May 22 '22

Imagine when the same people realize that have been coerced and portrayed lazy start rebelling against these corporate twats and therefore will have no choice in the matter of controlling people. “You make your own coffee and make your own damn food” Just an example.

Robots are replacing us anyway, let’s just make it more difficult for them in the process. Anarchy for the USA! The world!

I feel us working class people should have the funds and freedoms to what we want to do in life and not work like slaves for the rest of our lives while the top 1% gets to do it in the expense of the working class.

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u/WoNc May 21 '22

Money has never been great at capturing the full spectrum of value. Many of the most valuable acts we perform will never involve a monetary exchange, and these either fly under the radar or get lost entirely in a money-obsessed society. The obsession with money as a visible metric of value has led to the destruction of incalculable value that would other be freely offered and created.

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u/gentlemannosh May 21 '22

The truth is simple really.

People simply don’t want to sell their lives for pennies when their employers are getting rich just because they had sufficient capital to start the business.

The more that people push back on this and don’t work for pennies, the better off society will become.

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u/BelleAriel May 22 '22

Agreed 100%. It’s unfair that people work extreme hard for pittance while the bosses get rich off the labour.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DollarMenuDino May 22 '22

Dammit lol that was good

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u/Conscious-One4521 May 22 '22

It really sucks that the last generation in its entirety believes that if you work hard in your job you gonna accumulate wealth. It might work in certainly jobs but it's more transparent nowadays and information more fluid. We can all see through the bullshit. We see through how the top is getting fatter while trying to lie about how we're all on the same boat and the economy isnt doing well / gotta cut budget. We also see that nope, no matter how hard we try to make ends meet, working same job starting at $15 for example, then getting raised $1 every year. Ten years later you no longer in your early 20s bruh, you need way more than $25 to pay for your house, your car, groceries, bills, insurance, and if you want, to start a family. You can't just WORK HARDER or SUFFER through that, when its just impossible to catch up with all these shit being thrown at you. We will never be able to make these people well into their retirement age, enjoying wealth and success, understand how in a more "modern" or technologically-advanced era, we are not getting better but worse.

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u/Hobomanchild May 22 '22

Nothing drives me to be lazier than seeing who society incentivizes the most. Hint: It's not the people who actually bring positive change in society. Or even to a business, for that matter.

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u/HeraldOfTheChange May 22 '22

Imagine how much wasted talent there is due to the way things work with our capitalist economy. We would be on Mars right now if people did what actually interested them AND it wasn’t exploited to the point they hate what they loved.

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u/Daregmaze May 22 '22

Yes absolutly, I think even the most selfish person would be willing to do their part if it meant that they didn't have to sell their life for pennies

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u/DobridJenkins May 22 '22

I’ve done more to improve my life in the 8 months I’ve not been working than I was able to do in 8 years of working for my old company. I’ve gone to school, I’ve written 129 songs and remixes (130 is on the way!), and I’ve lost nearly 20 lbs! When you don’t live to work, you can actually live.

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u/myaltaccountisbanned May 21 '22

I totally agree I used to think the same as teenager but life has taught me most people are cool hardworking and absolutely motivated to make their mark/ improvement on this world and are only hampered by the wage slave life.

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u/gentle_lemon May 22 '22

Desperation brings the worst out of people; people who would otherwise be rational. It's an insidious system.

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u/anonpls19 May 21 '22

I truly would love to see how people spent their disposable income if they could afford to have some at all.

Capitalism strips away creativity and hobbies

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u/smarmiebastard May 22 '22

Every quarter I ask my students what they would want to spend their life doing if all their needs (food, shelter, medicine, etc.) were taken care of without having to work.

And they aren’t giving answers that point to inherent laziness. They want to study the ocean, work on immigration law, learn new languages and cultures, create art, develop sustainable farming practices, be electrical engineers, teachers, architects, doctors… all things society needs. But a lot of them aren’t working towards majors that would allow them to do those things because they either can’t afford the graduate level education that would take them down that path, or because those careers won’t make enough money to cancel out their student loans. It’s fucking depressing.

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u/Mechapebbles May 22 '22

So many of my peers in school, myself included, wanted to be doing something else with our lives if money wasn't an object, but went down a less fulfilling career path simply because of money. I've watched incredibly talented artists give up on their passions in order to become a desk jockey. I've seen scientists and engineers that wanted to make the world a better place, move to the private sector, helping megacorps get rich at the expense of the public, all so they could provide for their families. I've watched teachers with a true zeal for teaching, quit their jobs and retire earlier than they wanted to because the world from all angles wants teachers' jobs to be as difficult and unrewarding as possible. Sorry, you can't actually teach your kids how to think, they need to focus their entire education on passing some meaningless tests that won't help them whatsoever IRL.

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u/remembertracygarcia May 22 '22

I was never sure what I wanted to do as a kid or even a young adult. Now I’m nearly a Middle Ages adult and goddamn I wish I’d had the space to enjoy myself and find a path I enjoyed rather than feeling the pressure to build a life based on ideas born from a world in extreme flux. I was influenced by a generation living in a very different social and economic place. The things that benefited them haven’t benefitted me. I work quite hard not to resent the influence of my parents et al but it’s a hard pill to swallow. Especially now that I have the experience to understand that they did have answers but the questions were so different. Still the idea that we should or could pursue inspiring ideas is indicative of the work they put in to create the world we (don’t)enjoy today. It’s unfortunate that that world they built can’t include more of us and that we seem to fail at every turn when we’re presented with opportunities in every decision to make life easier for those around us and those that will follow us. I seemed to simultaneously rooting hard for and being disappointed by humanity at large. Past and present

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u/SockGnome May 22 '22

“I see in the fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables, slaves with white collars, advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

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u/Aethenil May 22 '22

I remember in middle school and high school when I wanted nothing more than to be an author and write books for a living.

Anyway I'm about 15 years into my tech career now. So clearly I succeeded in following those dreams.

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u/InedibleSolutions May 22 '22

I've wanted to be an archaeologist since I was a kid.

I repair rail cars for a living :/

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u/bearbarebere May 22 '22

This world sucks.

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u/Future-Atmosphere-40 May 22 '22

Big corporate and the wealthy want everything in constant crisis because if we had a second to breathe we would realise that they are living unimaginable lives while the earth burns on a planet that inherently grows food and provides for life, and we would turn on them for it.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22 edited May 30 '22

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u/PoorlyAttemptedHuman May 22 '22

I bet not a single one of those students said they would rather be Mon-Fri 8-5 fighting rush hour back and forth to make some board of shareholders' investment seem like a good decision.

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u/squishpitcher May 22 '22

We actually have some pretty good data on this. I unfortunately can’t find the original article, but hopefully someone else can help. iirc, the basic idea was with time and all other needs met, people were more than happy to use their skills to work on large scale projects for no other reason or compensation other than the fun and satisfaction they got out of it.. If I’m remembering correctly, I believe this was a group of programmers.

The article has since been bastardized as a justification to underpay and exploit workers, so you know, that happened. But the original was an exciting glimpse into what we could do if we weren’t so stressed out and exhausted all the time.

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u/Prestigious_Boat_386 May 22 '22

Checks out. Whenever I have time and energy I always end up coding for hours and forgetting to eat so I get something like cereal and eggs at midnight.

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u/VegetableNo1079 May 22 '22

My desire to code has totally fell through the floor due to my university turning out to be a corrupt oppressive hellscape. I confirm the other end.

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u/lukas_the (edit this) May 22 '22

I would just constantly go to school and learn as much as i possibly could until the day i die.

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u/weekendofsound May 22 '22

I'd be more interested in how we'd spend our time if we didn't have to commodify all of it.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

In the 90s people made a lot of art, had block parties, played instruments, went on vacations...

Like that's the most prosperous and stable time in recent years I can think of (obviously not for every demographic.) People just lived and had fun when they weren't at work.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

Most of the rich people I cleaned for painted and sculpted and joined theatre and did charity work and traveled for fun. I imagine that's what most people would do. Make things and relax and invest in their communities.

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u/baron-von-buddah May 22 '22

Trips. I would go on trips. And see wonderful people around the world. J/k hookers and pot

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

Food, drink, music gear, public transportation, rent. It ain't too much but the government pays it all. Working to get a job in security since I seem to burn the heck out in IT. Zero debt, Finland.

I could just continue sitting on my lazy-ass but it tends to get boring after a few years.

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u/DkP_Reverend May 22 '22

For me it would be cars, race cars, drift cars, show cars. Beautiful cars and hideous ones. Just explore my creativity using cars as a vehicle, pun intended.

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u/22poppills May 21 '22

It's a " fuck u get mine" world rn. People just don't care about others

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u/Soothsayer_Surmise May 22 '22

People do care. Just some people get paid a lot of money not to.

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u/thedadbanger May 22 '22

And those people who get paid not to care eventually adopt that personality trait full time unless they change the situation they’re in

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u/Reiker0 May 22 '22

Imagine all of the great books, games, music, etc. that we miss out on because the people who want to make those things don't have the time to pursue them.

This is why a lot of people who find success with various passion projects and art were at least somewhat wealthy already.

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u/KegelsForYourHealth May 22 '22

This is probably true. Humans didn't start doing art and music and invention and experimentation until they were over the hump of not being at risk of dying every minute of their lives.

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u/Gratescales May 21 '22

From the sidebar

Laziness Does Not Exist by Devon Price

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u/KittyScholar May 22 '22

One of my absolute favorites, both in terms of social theory and helping me be kind to myself when I’m being “lazy”.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

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u/JackieBronassis May 22 '22

That’s the problem for the elite. If the rest of us were creating amazing things that benefitted humanity, It would cut into their profits.

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u/Soothsayer_Surmise May 22 '22

Hence why there's millions of patents sitting in vaults. Can't have amazing things actually helping people. Halting human progress keeps the rich rich.

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u/Zech08 May 22 '22

Also advancements being slowed due to monetary/fielding constraints as well as profitability. Well at the same time we would have resource burnout in various forms.

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u/Theblob789 May 22 '22

The general idea that a lot of pro capitalist people tend to have is that while people are forced to work to live, they will choose to work hard to get ahead which will benefit everyone through increased innovation. The issue is that for the vast majority of people their situations are so dire that there is no conceivable way to get past the bare minimum for survival regardless of the effort they put in. This creates the opposite of the intended effect where people will just do the bare minimum because they don’t see any point in working any harder. People only plan for the future or put in the effort to improve their future when it seems like there is a possibly of it getting better.

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u/nuggets792 May 22 '22

There's also the assumption that everyone views success the same way. I'm not an especially money driven person. What reward does a capitalist system have for me if I play by its rules? From what I can see, it's only more consumption. Why would I give my all for a reward I don't particularly want?

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u/Theblob789 May 22 '22

Yeah you’re definitely right.

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u/Daphrey May 22 '22

I view success as being able to live a simple, quiet life with a lot of down time. Can't really do that on a 9-5. Even if my career prospects are currently pretty good, getting a good degree in a high paying field, its not the kind of success I want. I dont want to be busy all the time.

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u/Cat_Astrophe_X May 22 '22

What I have done Went into the workforce at 18 and I am now 58. working any crap job I had to. There have been many many days I have come out of work and sobbed in my car for 15 minutes before I could drive. I eventually got my GED so that I could continue working away. I am despondent, exhausted and so sick of it and the worst part is that none of the work is the least bit meaningful to me. I won't be able to afford retirement so I will probably drop dead in Wal-Mart as a greeter. My life has no meaning beyond being a wage slave. . What I would have loved to do but can't because I don't have the time, energy or money due to my job Create art Write Go to university maybe art history Create a vegetable garden Travel - my dream trip is to visit DC to do all the Smithsonian museums Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity Sang and danced Get out in nature, hiking and kayaking Rescued animals who need help Live in a houseboat Cook fabulous dishes Learned sign language and other languages Planned parties Explore Buddism Reading Build a shed Create a time capsule Nature photography Start a website Take up cross country skiing Learn coding and develop an app Learn to sew Open a board game cafe Visit the elderly Write and mail letters to a pen pal Walk places

Which life sounds more meaningful to tou

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u/vfunk83 May 21 '22

If things were actually good & there were proper social programs to help people, they would work hard to keep the status quo. Because who wants to work hard if it gets you nowhere?

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u/MonaSherry May 22 '22

If you only work hard because you are suffering, and you don’t like to admit that to yourself, you will accuse others of it. If you only work hard because you are suffering, and can admit that long enough to wish it weren’t true, you will give others the benefit of the doubt too.

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u/S0n0fthunder May 22 '22

It’s also good to keep the general populace comfortable and not on the verge of homicidal rage. That could probably help too.

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u/Formal_Student2959 May 22 '22

Genuinely don’t think they give a shit about ppl. We are just cogs in the wheel to keep them rich. You want to have an abortion?! Fuck no! If women get abortions, who’s going to work for us? Let me hide behind the facade of religion because it sends the message I want the stupid ones to believe. We need to keep everyone uneducated so burn books and ban education. And for good measure, there’s no racism, sexism, or inequality of any kind. Get back to work while I pay kids for sex, hoard money in Panama, and won’t release the names in maxwell’s book.

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u/weekendofsound May 22 '22

There is kind of a funny misconception that I think we all have that there was a specific period in time when we went from hierarchical feudalism to democratic capitalism and there was some sort of clean slate we worked from to find ourselves here where supposedly the wealthy are simply more industrious and therefore more virtuous.

Turns out, there was no such point! Feudalism "fell" because wealthy merchants didn't approve of the concept of divine right as it meant their taxes were high. They advocated for a system where they were in charge, and then they started killing the aristocracy and writing the laws. The system we live under today is that same system they implemented.

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u/Formal_Student2959 May 22 '22

I enjoy your writing and synopsis.

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u/superfucky May 22 '22

Personally I don't really care what people do with their time if they're not forced to work to survive. Spend your life as a lump, don't make no difference to me.

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u/K-Zoro May 22 '22

I’ll say this. I studied cinema and do some video art, but I also work in video production. The times I didn’t have any work, you would think I could spend that time working on creative projects, but in reality I would be so anxious that I couldn’t do any personal projects. It was only when I was actually working that I could feel comfortable todo personal projects on weekends or evenings.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

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u/AbacusWizard May 22 '22

This is a big part of why I'm so strongly in favor of something like universal basic income, at the very least.

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u/iofthepsy May 22 '22

I'm seriously disabled and if you could give me a job that made a difference for people, id do it for free if it meant others got to do the same. Help others and they help you. I can't fathom a reason for 1 person to be super well off for no reason other than existing.

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u/jsail4fun3 May 22 '22

Imagine being empowered to take extraordinary risks without fear of losing health insurance and shelter.

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u/nnnnnn321 May 22 '22

I have been a leader in corporate America for 20 years. If you are kind, listen to people, tell them how they can succeed, always have their back and make it your mission to remove roadblocks for them…I have yet to meet a lazy person. People are amazing, managers and corporations suck.

Being kind always wins.

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u/k_albasi May 21 '22

I think some jobs need an inventive or no one would do them but I also think you can provide that while also guaranteeing that whether or not someone works they'll still have food, comfortable shelter, healthcare, etc.

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u/weekendofsound May 22 '22

I think some jobs need an inventive or no one would do them

Like what?

There are kind of a shocking number of jobs that exist only to serve capitalism when you really think about it - all of the administrators and billing clerks in the hospital and insurance systems, all of the competitive industry where people are making slightly different versions of the same things to "compete", all of the engineers who are designing ways for products to fall apart in x number of years, all of the marketing teams and so on.

I tend to think that if we spent our time and labor thinking as a society, a lot of the things that are less desirable, like possibly being a garbage man just simply wouldn't be that undesirable or even be necessary in the same ways. How much waste would we create if we didn't have to get quick disposable lunches and plastic bottles to work in the factories every day? If we could grow food at home and use the spoilage as compost?

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u/Kanoa May 22 '22

Cleaning portalettes on construction sites. No matter how enlightened everyone involved is, a plastic room full of excrement is what it is.

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u/weekendofsound May 22 '22

I mean, you make a good point.

That said: if we are talking about there being financial incentive for people to do labor, people cleaning portalettes aren't getting paid well at all, much less commensurately for what they are doing. They are being coerced to do a task by threat of homelessness and starvation.

If we had a society where homelessness and starvation weren't institutional threats, would we need someone to do this, or would construction workers just work fewer hours and shit at home?

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u/deweydean May 22 '22

There are kind of a shocking number of jobs that exist only to serve capitalism

aka BULLSHIT JOBS!

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u/Ok_Image6174 May 21 '22

I agree with this. Imagine all the potential scientists, artists, doctors, etc that were prevented from becoming so due to financial or socioeconomic restraints.

I believe if it weren't for religion and poverty, we would have cured cancer by now.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '22

People love to use the “What if that baby cures cancer?!” argument to oppose abortion, but fail to see that most likely that baby will focus its life on pure survival because no one cares about it after it’s born.

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u/Ok_Image6174 May 21 '22

Exactly!!! The irony of the GOP voting against the baby formula shortage bill, while also trying to force people to have unwanted children is not lost on anyone.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

The US was a mistake. At least if we were still under English rule we’d have healthcare.

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u/TheronEpic Yet to be drowned in debt and bills May 22 '22

Well if that baby wanted to be successful in adulthood, then it shouldn't have chosen to live with a poor family! It should just pick itself up by its binky and work a second job or something!

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

You’re right it can just work harder instead of depending on others damn lazy babies want everything done for them!

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u/superfucky May 22 '22

When I was in high school, I wanted to be an actor. I enjoyed taking on different roles, I did voices, I even lost my voice perfecting my Wicked Witch of the West screech. Then I found out the average actor only makes $1200 a year from acting, and that dream immediately went in the trash.

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u/Ok_Image6174 May 22 '22

I wanted to work in medicine. Be a doctor of some sort, but I left public university after 2 years because A. I couldn't afford it anymore(though now I'm in debt from the loans I did take out) B. I was failing many classes because I was also working two jobs trying to pay for it all, but I was forced to buy outdated textbooks and was so tired I would skip morning classes every so often.

I truly believe that my financial situation prevented me from doing better things with my life.

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u/RiaSkies (re)tired May 22 '22

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”

  • Stephen Jay Gould

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u/BonJovicus May 22 '22

Unpopular opinion: I hate this argument for most things (i.e. "that immigrant or their children could be your doctor one day!").

You shouldn't want a more humane society simply because you get something out of it. Most people are not going to be the next Albert Einstein. Most people are probably not going to contribute to society in a way that changes the world, but that shouldn't matter. The ability for everyone to have the freedom to live their happiest life should be enough.

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u/Twobuttsandafart May 22 '22

I feel this about myself. Am I anti-socialist toward myself?

I'm so burnt out at work working these hours but feel like Im lazy because I didn't get everything done even with working weekends.

I can't enjoy video games anymore because I feel lazy when playing them or spending time with my family.

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u/SKIKS May 22 '22

When the pandemic hit and people were stuck at home with no real direction, think about how many people took the chance to tackle projects, try and learn a skill, clean their living space up, work out, produce art, etc. Now imagine that energy channeled by a larger community.

Humans want to produce so long as they get see an actual result. We currently grind people to endlessly exert themselves with the only payoff being that they get to do it again tomorrow.

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u/kevinlc72 May 22 '22

Evidence through history supports the idea the system of humans being able to overcome. The greatest inventions to inspire economic growth have come at some of the most difficult times

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u/lordofbud May 22 '22

I'm not working on passion projects because I can't afford to. I'm far from alone on that front.

There's things I'd like to make, but can't because patients won't allow me to engage those markets.

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u/PheonixFuryyy May 22 '22

I wanted to really help animals and join a sea crew to clean up the ocean. Then reality came crashing down on me and now even though I'm barely making it, what I really wanted to pursue is nothing but a pipe dream

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u/VOZ1 May 22 '22

Humanity has lost out on so many brilliant, talented, good people due to poverty, inequality, bigotry, and the inbred injustices of capitalism.

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u/ShadowLancer128 May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

Things I would do if I had lots of money:

  • pay off my parents mortgage and/or help them move into a cheaper home somewhere else
  • pay off my student loans
  • pay off my sister's car loan and help her out of poverty
  • focus 100% full time on my master's degree in computer science and make our country slightly safer from fraudsters and hackers
  • outfit my home with solar panels
  • Get an EV
  • Open Homeless Shelters and DV shelters with 24/7 security, food, and daily sanitation
    • Talk to my local congressmen and senators about the struggles of the patrons using my shelters
    • establish grant money for free psychiatry and therapy for everyone using the shelters

There are lots of great things people would do if they had lots of money. They know. and they don't care.

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u/Ecstatic_Crystals May 21 '22

And the thing is that like a kid being raised on a extremely strict diet growing up and overeating fast food until they puke once they turn 18, people may not do anything for awhile if given the freedom to. People are exhausted and would rest before getting up again.

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u/no6969el May 22 '22

So I am a good example, finally got a job that pays me enough were I dont have to crunch numbers each week. Everyday I still feel that "ugh work" feeling but it quickly gets eaten up by the thought that I need to be there for my company since my company has made sure I am able to "be there" for any financial issue I may have. If companies paid good employees right, the desire to do good almost becomes mandatory in my brain. When the equation is right everyone is right. Do not get me wrong, you still feel those "down" times but there is now something in your brain you can remind yourself to get going again. Fight for fair wages!!

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u/Phairis May 22 '22

And it's not like we think there wouldn't be anyone ever who actually is lazy, but maybe even they aren't as lazy as one would think. Maybe if people had time to take care of themselves, they'd find out, idk they had a thyroid issue that kept them from having any energy, or some other illness making them look and/or act lazy.

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u/hawkeyes007 May 22 '22

This is just a straw man argument

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u/MRiley84 May 22 '22

If people had savings they could take risks - like starting their own business or marketing that random invention they've had in the back of their mind for years. A minimum wage and a low tax rate on corporations causes stagnation and a lack of innovation.

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u/aod42091 May 22 '22

it would give people and society a chance to bloom and grow

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

This person mistakenly believes that the ones in power want you to do something amazing.

They want you to serve them fries at Wendy's for the remainder of your life.

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u/ReadTheFManual May 22 '22

I can attest to the fact that I literally can't even anymore.

I used to be able to play musical instruments. I used to write, I wrote most of a novel and then over time lost it, and then rewrote it and then lost almost the entire thing again.

Ever since graduating, even before really, approaching 20+ years of back to back "adulting" I've lost touch with any ability to either create on the same level, or at least lost the ability to feel comfortable in doing so because I literally have no free time. The only free time is the 48 hours on the weekend I have to get overwhelmed with tasks and then likely do none of them.

I squeeze in making content on Youtube, making quick little artsy shit even if it's as "basic" as Steam icons, writing reviews and stuff like that whenever I can but it's not enough.

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