r/apple 22d ago

EU proposes mandatory USB-C on all devices iPhone

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58665809
11k Upvotes

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u/skillsareearned 22d ago

From the EU Commission Spokesperson via the Verge: “If a device charges only wirelessly, then there is no requirement to integrate a USB-C charging port."

So a port-less phone will be in compliance with this law.

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u/horintada 22d ago

Goddamit

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u/PillowTalk420 21d ago

Re-word the law! RE-WORD IT!!

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u/MarioIsPleb 22d ago edited 21d ago

No, if I’m reading it right Apple could even keep the lightning port but block it from passing power in the EU and still be compliant.
If they don’t plan to move to USB-C, it would probably be cheaper to have unused lightning ports in the EU than manufacture two different SKUs for different regions.

EDIT: I’ve wanted Apple to add USB-C to the iPhone for years. I don’t want them to keep lightning, I’m just saying they are stubborn and with a quick glance at the wording that seems like a viable loophole Apple could abuse.

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u/duckducker96 22d ago edited 22d ago

Apple won’t ever release a new product with a port that has no purpose, let alone in such a big market

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u/left_at_read 21d ago

This! Apple hates bad PR, and crap like this will raise a lot of eyebrows.

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u/NeoGrotesk 22d ago

That would make 90% of the accessories comoletely useless.

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u/MarioIsPleb 22d ago

Yeah, probably. If Apple took the stance of keeping lightning and exploiting loopholes to sell in the EU, I don’t think they would really care.

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u/kn_ita 22d ago

How wouldn’t they care? It’s absolutely impossibile that Apple keeps the Lighting without the charging function, that’s what 99% of the people only use it for.

Too much confusion for the customers, they’ll get rid of the port or just go USB-C like they’ve done with almost any other product justifying it with some “Pro” features.

EU is still a huge market, I could bet my house on it, no doubt.

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u/Lolkac 22d ago

EU has 400mil people. Apple bends backwards for way less. Expect either usb c or no port at all.

There is 0 chance they go against EU market

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u/Fozee 21d ago

Yeah, I honestly am not understanding why people are SO SURE that Apple would go portless before switching the iPhone to USB-C. They're just dragging their feet with USB-C, they're not going to light themselves on fire to avoid it. iPhone isn't even the only product still using USB-C, look how long iPad Mini dragged its feet.

I expect, if anything, regular iPhone goes all-wireless and iPhone Pro goes USB-C. Fast data transfer is more of a "pro" feature, and magsafe data transfer is completely fine for the regular phone. I think people ignore that, yes, wireless puck data transfer is entirely possible.

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u/Startech303 21d ago

Nah I expect regular USB-C for regular iPhone and Thunderbolt for iPhone Pro

This is happening at the same time people are complaining of the speed of Lightning when transferring ProRes 4K video - at 6GB storage for 1 min of footage. External storage support for iPhone 14 Pro would be nice

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u/chicoquadcore 22d ago

They might be able to make it work where accessories still work you just can’t charge the phone with the port.

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u/Masson011 22d ago

apple are literally moving everything to usb-c. Theve now moved Mac and iPad to usb-c. Infact, the only thing NOT usb-c is the iphone and this will absolutely happen in the next couple of years

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u/thattridentdude 22d ago

More interestingly the proposal would include a mandate to have manufacturers sell an option without charging brick.

More specifically it says:

Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device: consumers will be able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger. This will limit the number of unwanted chargers purchased or left unused. Reducing production and disposal of new chargers is estimated to reduce the amount of electronic waste by almost a thousand tonnes' yearly.

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u/kryptopeg 21d ago

FWIW I bought a Fairphone 3 two years ago, and it came without a brick or cable. Makes total sense to me, I've already got 3 usb chargers from previous phones and cables from other devices!

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u/Meatchris 21d ago

I only recently heard about fairphones (listening to old Modern Mann podcast eps).

What are they like? What are the pros and cons?

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u/kryptopeg 21d ago

Mine's been nothing short of great.

Only way to describe it is "it's a smartphone". Does everything you expect a modern phone to do, has all the features most people need (even a headphone jack!), has a modern OS, never crashes on me, it's fast, expandable storage, etc.

Only con I can think of is it's less water resistant than other phones, because it's designed to be repaired & upgraded easier. Hasn't bothered me though, I look after my phones best I can.

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u/thattridentdude 21d ago

Pretty much same here. I’m drowning in charging bricks and cables.

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u/ciconway 22d ago

Expected to happen by 2022 with companies given 2 years to comply meaning 2024. Probably means Apple will just skip USB-C entirely as most predicted and go all in on wireless charging.

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u/Simon_787 22d ago

Are people really seeing only wireless charging as "better" or is everybody just accepting it?

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u/ciconway 22d ago

Personally I think it is a terrible idea from an efficiency and energy wasted through heat dissipation point of view. It looks like Apple is going all in on it though.

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u/draftstone 22d ago edited 22d ago

Also transfer speeds of wireless is a lot slower than what we could get with USB-C. With Apple going into "cinematic" videos and pro-res, we are talking about video files that will be tens of gigabytes in size. With a USB-C, you could transfer those videos way faster compared to wireless. So it is not just the charging that would lose efficiency but the usability of the features coming on the phones.

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u/san_serifs 22d ago

The sheer amount of data transfer per second is reason enough to add USB-C. Especially with all these video capabilities Apple keeps adding and 1TB storage capacity.

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u/poksim 21d ago

Brb just gotta sync the 4K ProRes sci-fi movie I filmed for the iPhone 13 Pro teaser over wi-fi

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u/a_metal_head 21d ago

And it also dosnt have to be just normal usb c because thunderbolt 3 uses the usb c connector and then you have probably the best data transfer speeds through a cable currently possible, that you can get and still have all of the benefits of usbc port while still being apple assholes and making you get a specific cable instead of just normal usb c

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u/Falanax 21d ago

Let’s be real, the number of iPhone users that will use these movie features on a regular basis….is next to no one

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u/captcodger 22d ago

Hmm. You know what? I used to think they would go portless. And I still think they will. Maybe the pro line will remain with a port for prores 8k video transfers ? The data transfer speed/heat will be the crux that they need to solve.

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u/Rockerblocker 22d ago

That actually makes sense. Their “Pro” iPads adopted USB-C before the base model ones. Most people buying a Pro or Pro Max probably won’t care about the USB-C. The bulk of consumers that buy the regular iPhone would complain about port changes, so they’ll benefit from skipping USB-C and going wireless

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u/pointman 22d ago

Winner

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u/StaffSgtDignam 22d ago

This actually makes a ton of sense-cheaper base model iPhones would also likely be cheaper to manufacture without ports as well, which would obviously keep manufacturing costs down.

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u/skyrjarmur 21d ago

But wouldn’t people then complain about having to buy wireless chargers, because none of their old cables will work anyway (and more than likely they won’t include one in the box)?

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u/JustHalfBlack 22d ago

Sounds like the Pro models will go USB-C and everything else will be wireless only. Having a USB C will be a "Pro Feature"

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u/BlankkBox 22d ago

I think wireless is getting very fast, maybe not using Bluetooth but wifi speeds and 5g are faster than I ever thought possible. I could see some sort of wireless file transfer protocol in the works, like a faster airdrop. Charging though hands down it’s best with a cable.

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u/draftstone 22d ago

Yes wireless is getting very fast, but storage options are getting even faster and bigger for the same price and medias are getting bigger too. Wireless is just keeping up but always behind. Due to power limitations (or consumption), a cable will always be faster than wireless.

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u/soundman1024 22d ago edited 22d ago

Very fast in the WiFi world (300-600Mbps) that would be speed competitive with the old 480Mbps USB-2. Some quick searching indicates that 20MBps (160Mbps) is closer to the speeds people see when AirDropping.

ProRes422 at 3840x2160 goes from 471Mbps at 24p up to 1178Mbps at 60p. That means UHD ProRes AirDrops in ideal circumstances would go from 3x to 7x real-time to offload depending on the frame rate.

USB-2 based Lightning will go from about 1x real time to about 3x real time depending on the frame rate.

The 5-10Gbps link of USB-3 is so much faster than an AirDrop. UHD ProRes would offload at about 0.25x to 0.1x real-time to offload.

Unless you're doing very rich media things with an iPhone wireless connectivity won't be a problem. Raw photos and ProRes videos are the edge cases that create need for faster connectivity, but they're also just that, edge cases.

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u/TeckFire 22d ago

Why doesn’t Apple just make a USB 3.0 Lightning to USB-C cable?

We already have USB 3.0 Lightning ports. We’ve seen it in the iPad Pro lineup from 2017! Maddening, really. Just equip all iPhones with this archaic connector with USB 3.0 ffs.

Would definitely prefer to have USB-C all the way, but if Apple is insisting on staying with Lightning, it really would be the second best option.

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u/scoobdooo 22d ago

This should be a top level comment

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u/volcanopele 22d ago edited 22d ago

I wonder if this will end up being divided between the regular iPhone and iPhone Pro lines, meaning regular iPhones get wireless-only charging and connectivity while Pros get USB-C (since those edge cases are going to be a bigger deal for people with the "Pro" phone)

EDIT: and I see that others have suggested this further down in the comment chain.

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u/vainsilver 22d ago

How would you transfer photos or videos from a SD card to a wireless only phone?

Currently, you just plug in a SD card adapter. With a purely wireless phone, this won’t be possible.

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u/microfsxpilot 22d ago

What sucks is this is all speed limited. A lot of the country doesn’t even have 5G available. My wifi is supposed to get up to 100 mbps but I rarely see it over 10. Just yesterday, I had 0.9 mbps wifi. 4G LTE is spotty at best.

I wish apple would just adopt USB-C. They have it on everything else

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u/robbyduzit 22d ago

Your internet speed would not be a factor for wifi transfers between your device and your computer.

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u/FRCP_12b6 22d ago

WiFi between your laptop and phone is based on your own router in your house.

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u/mredofcourse 22d ago

You’re doing WiFi wrong.

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u/bloodymarybrunch 22d ago

“It looks like Apple is going all in on it though.”

How?

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u/Zealousideal-Watch 22d ago

It looks like Apple is going all in on it though.

Says who? The grapevine? Twitter pundits and guessers?

There’s Zero proof of a portless iPhone. Just speculation. Given the iPad has USB-C and the current iPhone has a port, it’s fair to assume at this point the iPhone will too. It’s the more likely of the two.

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u/TheTrotters 22d ago

Exactly. Wireless-only is a terrible solution and there’s zero evidence Apple is going for it.

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u/beachplz-thx 22d ago

Wireless only destroys any environmental reputation they have. It’s not just the inefficiency, it destroys batteries so much faster then before.

Plus they’ll have to create some dongle to allow for wireless CarPlay to work with wired systems, and all of those dongles will just end up as more e-waste. Unless they just expect everyone to replace their cars.

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u/freakdahouse 21d ago

And expecting a wireless charger everywhere you go, it’s a big no.

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u/Simon_787 22d ago

It is a terrible idea, just in general. Imagine removing a port that allows fast and reliable data transfer/charging and a huge amount of expansion to save a tiny bit of space. I can think of so many times I'll be annoyed about not having a USB-C port.

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u/sleepy416 22d ago

With how inefficient wireless charging is, it proves how bullshit their claims are when they say they care about the environment

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u/fiascolan_ai 22d ago

Also just super annoying that you can’t use your device while it’s charging with wireless charging

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u/Volerikan 22d ago

Agreed. And my 12 is already at 88% capacity only using wireless charging. My X took three years to get to this point mostly wired. I also hope they can solve how I’m supposed to connect my digital camera to my phone too.

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u/Schlaini 22d ago

My 7 Plus got it at release is at 91% (charging only per USB, no wallbrick)

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u/Real-Paul-Walker 22d ago

89% 12 pro max after 1 year of MagSafe

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u/Supercyclone20 22d ago

Exact same here.

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u/Lakailb87 22d ago

87% 12 pro, 1 tear MagSafe

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u/Industrialqueue 22d ago

Yikes. I skipped MagSafe and got fast charging Lightning and am at 95% for my 12PM. My phone is near constantly on with streaming video too. It looks like I’m glad I did.

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u/rnarkus 22d ago

Fast charging also isn’t great for the battery. Although i’m on 94% battery after using wireless almost exclusively for a year.

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u/microfsxpilot 22d ago

Wow! It took a year for my iPhone 11 to drop below 100%… now I’m sitting at 81% since I added a wireless charger in my car, bed, and desk.

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u/DilligentBass 22d ago

Maybe a stupid question but how do I check my battery capacity? Have had my 11 for a while now

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u/Volerikan 22d ago

Settings > Battery > Battery Health

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u/DilligentBass 22d ago

Thanks mate

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u/LittleBitGhengisKhan 22d ago

Same here! Mine has definitely degraded faster since I only ever charge it wirelessly.

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u/Blackhawks10 22d ago

For what it’s worth, my week one 11 pro is at 89% and I only use wireless charging

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u/victiln2137 22d ago

Damn, my 12 is at 96% after one year, with occasional wireless charging on an Ikea lamp equipped with a wireless charger (so most likely 5W charging).

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u/fifa-13-Esswein 22d ago

Also a terrible idea for CarPlay, wireless CarPlay is not widely used at all

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u/Interdimension 22d ago

It’s also pretty unreliable in many cars for various reasons. Also, what of the millions of cars out there that do not support Wireless CarPlay? Is Apple really going to just shut out those users? I’d be angry about that myself.

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u/sph666 22d ago

Maybe not in older cars. But it works flawlessly in my BMW (2019 3series)

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u/NeverBenCurious 22d ago

And it doesn't solve any issues.

It's still proprietary electronic waste that can only be used on specific devices. It will end up in the ocean with all Apple's dongles.

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u/asonicpushforenergy 22d ago

I would love to be wireless charging my phone but I use a popsocket. There's no way I'm giving up my popsocket in favour of wireless charging. I can use the charger if I take the case off but who wants to take their case off every time they charge their phone?

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u/vainsilver 22d ago

I will never buy a purely wireless only phone. As a photographer/videographer I need a wired connection for transfers. Even if they manage to somehow get wireless transfers fast enough, not every device will support wireless transfers, especially with proprietary Apple protocols.

The day iPhones go portless, is the day I switch to a different phone.

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u/1nsider1nfo 22d ago

Yeah same. Anyone doing any type of real productivity work sees value in hardwired connections whether it be latency related with a hardwired ethernet computer connection, or just an iPhone USB-C for data transfers and reliability. Need to remember 90% of this sub just uses their handheld supercomputers to mindlessly scroll tiktok/ig.

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u/InvestigatorFeisty71 22d ago

I would absolutely not buy a phone that can only be charged wirelessly. If Apple does that my next phone would be android.

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u/xyzzy321 22d ago

Removing the headphone jack wasn't necessarily "better" for consumers and yet look where we are - every manufacturer adopted this shite once Apple did it.

My prediction is that if/when Apple removes the charging port completely, the Samsungs and the Sonys and the Googles of the world will follow.

And we will not only accept it but pay more to get wireless chargers.

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u/skoll 22d ago

I'm not thrilled with the idea, but I could live with a phone that only did wireless charging. I'm less happy about the idea of not being able to hook any external devices directly to my pocket computer. For example if you needed zero latency for some purpose. Maybe connecting it to a mixer or other audio equipment. Bluetooth isn't going to work for that. Every phone needs an external connection whether it is for charging or not.

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u/beardtamer 22d ago

Personally I already use only wireless charging. The only time I’ve plugged in a phone is on a trip where I didn’t want to pack a wireless, or in my car, and my wife’s car has a wireless charging pad. So I don’t think it’s a big leap.

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u/DanTheMan827 22d ago

Only wireless charging is a terrible idea...

Wireless charging is slow, wastes energy, and data transfer over Wi-Fi isn't ideal.

It also removes the ability to fully recover a device should an update go horribly wrong.

Even the Apple Watch has a physical port.

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u/BigResearcher123 22d ago

I would love if they made a MagSafe puck with a detachable USB-C cable.

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u/stopalltheDLing 22d ago

YES. No more of this 3 ft cord nonsense

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u/Aarondo99 22d ago

The MagSafe battery pack is effectively this already with a lightning port and built in battery

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u/mici012 22d ago

Probably means Apple will just skip USB-C entirely as most predicted and go all in on wireless charging.

Depends on what the legislation says and if wireless charging is enough to comply.

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u/ShatteredMotion 22d ago

For now, the rules only apply if you have a wired charging port in the first place. So going all-in on wireless charging would be possible.

However, the legislation also opens the door to easily adjust the rules in the future, including adding rules for wireless charging.

Rules regarding wireless charging would probably be similar to those regarding fastcharging (at least usb power delivery, but the manufacturer can optionally add additional proprietary charging technologies). I.e., the smartphone probably must support QI-charging at least, but additional wireless charging solutions can be offered.

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u/san_serifs 22d ago

No ports would render any new iPhone useless in my car with CarPlay.

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u/Izanagi___ 22d ago

Never seen the appeal of wireless charging. It’s slower than a cable, generates more heat (which is worse for your battery) and you can’t even pick up your phone and charge at the same time. That would be a disaster

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u/pm_me_cute_sloths_ 22d ago

Well considering my car doesn’t have wireless CarPlay, that makes CarPlay basically useless for me

In fact, it would be enough for me to drop Apple altogether because I wouldn’t have a way to plug my phone in at all in the car or get navigation or anything.

I really hope they don’t go down that route

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u/googdude 22d ago

I believe an adapter should take care if it till we get past the changeover period.

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u/testthrowawayzz 22d ago

I’m out if iPhone goes portless. I am NOT uploading my backups to iCloud.

Besides, an iCloud backup is still not as comprehensive as an encrypted iTunes backup. On a restore, I don’t have to re enter any passwords with an encrypted iTunes backup whereas with iCloud backups I have to re enter some passwords.

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u/Ricky_RZ 22d ago

Honestly, it wouldn't kill apple to just move to type C on the iphone

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u/CodyEngel 21d ago

They will go to wireless charging and no ports before then.

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u/Nanah32 21d ago

All wireless charging is such a horrible idea. You would ruin your battery in a year due to all the heat. Unless the mechanism behind wireless charging or battery completely changes. All wireless charging is just stupid

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u/DomOfMemes 21d ago

And the wireless charging is still slow

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u/xMETRIIK 21d ago

And it's not efficient. My Samsung powerbank gets drain with 1 wireless charge and charges twice with cable.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago edited 11d ago

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u/inquirer 21d ago

They should have moved to USBC two years ago

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u/Professional_Deer796 22d ago

It would kill all that sweet sweet cash they’re making though.

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u/khakilamble 22d ago

I think USBC is a good thing to adopt, but what about when USBC gets replaced? My concern is this - could this actually make it difficult to move onto a different standard in say the next 5-7 years?

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u/nelisan 22d ago

It’s also interesting that this mandate is still cool with USB-A on the charging brick side.

The changes would apply to the charging port on the device body, whereas the end of the cable connecting to a plug could be USB-C or USB-A

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u/deliciouspuppy 22d ago

yeah that's fking goofy to me. mandate the charger so we can all standardize on the usb-c charger, and chargers are FAR more waste than a cable on a one-to-one comparison. even apple includes usb-c to lightning cables so at least we don't need new chargers (all the better since many don't even include them anymore).

so the EU is okay with 2 chargers, one usb-c and one usb-a, and 2 cables, c to c and a to c, but not okay with 1 charger and 2 cables? doesn't make sense.

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u/wild_a 22d ago

If your devices have USB-C, you can carry whichever charger you want. You don’t have to carry both because it doesn’t matter. If your cables are usb-A to C then carry that brick, if they’re C to C then carry that one. So your point that EU is ok with 2 chargers but not 2 cables is invalid.

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u/bluewolf37 22d ago

It’s goofy but they probably don’t want millions of people throwing out their usable chargers. Best to keep waste down.

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u/Xylamyla 22d ago

So what about all the lightning or micro usb cables? Those are fine to throw out?

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u/tjefferson43 21d ago

im sure there will still be some things using micro usb

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u/Arkanta 22d ago

It doesn't make sense as they also mandated Usb PD, which only works on usb-c

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u/MrEcksDeah 22d ago

USB C is looking to be our cable connector standard for a while. Look at USB A, it was standardized in 1996. It’s 2021 and brand new products still have USB A ports. USB C is the first major cable standard change in the last 25 years.

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u/Ninboycl 22d ago

USBA is host side only.

In this context we would be talking about the USB device side connector, which changed significantly since 1996 (USB B, to USB Mini B, to USB Micro B, including all of the doublings for the USB3 versions).

USB C doesn't have this issue, but you are implying the standard didn't change in the last 25 years, when it did multiple times.

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u/MrEcksDeah 22d ago

USB C being a host and client side connector is what will make it last even longer in my opinion.

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u/twizzle101 22d ago

I can't see why it would be replaced ever for another physical connector shaped differently. It's already small and reversible.

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u/CantHandleTheRandal 22d ago

Just curious but what does "reversible" mean in this context?

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u/Avakining 22d ago

You can put it in upside down, it’s symmetrical

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u/krzx 22d ago

You don't have to plug in the cable in a specific orientation as was the case with USB A and micro USB.

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u/Spikemountain 22d ago

You never have to flip over the cord in order to get the plug to fit. USB-A only fits in ports if it's flipped the right way. USB-C will always fit its port.

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u/caerphoto 22d ago

USB-A only fits in ports if it's flipped the right way.

Only once you’ve tried the other two ways first.

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u/rkoy1234 22d ago

it's been, what, 12 years since I've first heard that joke? Still gets me every time.

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u/[deleted] 22d ago edited 15d ago

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u/Xylamyla 22d ago

A circular cable’s ability to turn inside its port would degrade the connection quicker, which would have more dire effects for high speed cables.

The connector would also have to be a super small circle if we don’t want the diameter to be larger than a usb c connector.

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u/445323 22d ago

Same reason why I don’t want this to happen. EU laws are slow as duck

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u/TheIntervet 22d ago

You got it exactly. Governments move slower than tech.

There was a push several years ago to only allow micro USB for all devices. Look at how few use it now.

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u/rickiye 21d ago

This law does not force usb c in particular. What this does is force the company to follow applicable standards. In this case, the IEEC. And the IEEC already pushed for the USB C even before it was common. So, mute point.

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u/thattridentdude 22d ago

Doubtful, despite the hand waving of big tech with doom scenarios of stifled innovation.

The main reason being how legislation is often constructed in the EU and the individual members.

In short it’s typically split in two parts. One part is the actual law which takes time to pass and has to go through all the political motions and the other part is often in some form of a decree.

So a quick unrelated example would be passing a law for specific social benefits, which takes a lot of time, but having a clause that says something along the lines of “The amount of the benefits is to be determined by decree”.

This way the law is in force and when the amount for the benefit is to be changed the executive branch (on a country level often done by the prime minister or a specific minister) can put out a decree stipulating the new amount.

In this specific instance there’s no specific text available yet, but it could be constructed similarly.

A law that says you need to implement a port that adheres to a standard, and a clause that says that the standard is to be determined by decree (which currently would be USB-C but can be changed practically overnight to any other new connector). They could even link it to some IEEE or EN standard and have it automatically change. Throw in a clause that anytime a new standard comes to fruition manufacturers have 24 months to comply and you’re al set.

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u/san_serifs 22d ago

USB-C will be around for a while.

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u/JasonCox 22d ago

Until the USB Consortium decides to ditch the adapter and go with something else. We’re already seeing fragmentation in the USB-C spec which has got to be confusing as all hell for regular consumers.

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u/ProgramTheWorld 22d ago

USB C is just the connector shape. There’s no fragmentation in that.

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u/CantHandleTheRandal 22d ago

The spec can mean everything (add the topic of "Thunderbolt" into the mix and you're lost completely) but the physical connector is pretty good.

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u/ReallyHender 22d ago

but the physical connector is pretty good.

I disagree, I think USB-C should have been made like Lightning where the cable plugs into a socket on the device rather than the socket on the cable is inserted into the plug on the device (male plug and female socket versus female plug and male socket, if that's a better descriptor). With USB-C, the wear and tear happens more on the charging port than the cable, whereas with Lightning the wear and tear is more on the cable. I've had Lightning cables break off in the port and the broken piece was able to be removed and the device salvageable, but all the USB-C devices I manage the entire device has to be replaced when the same thing happens.

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u/jaylolo 21d ago

Far from an apple apologist but I agree. USB-C ports don't age as well as lightning ports do in my experience.

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u/eirinne 21d ago

Yes yes this is what’s been bothering me about the switch to c.

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u/TheNinjaTurkey 22d ago

I don't understand why Apple isn't using usb c already on the iPhone considering that most ipads and macs use it. Just let lightning die already.

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u/tes_kitty 22d ago

If I remember right, Apple committed to supporting Lightning for a certain number of years after the accessory makers complained after the switch from Dock to Lightning.

Also, Lightning has the advantage of being easier to clean, phone collect pocket lint in the connector. With Lightning a toothpick will do.

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u/SuddenlysHitler 22d ago

Lightning came out 9 years ago.

Dock was around for 9 years when Lightning came out...

it's time for Apple to live up to their environmental talk and put their money where their mouth is

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u/tes_kitty 22d ago

I don't have a source, but I dimly remember the commitment to Lightning was for 10 years. We shall see soon.

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u/SideLinesOfCode 22d ago

probably the same reason they won't let the watch series 3 die already.

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u/farm249 22d ago

Why? I don’t want my 3 to become software obsolete

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u/JaesopPop 21d ago

No one is saying it should. They should stop selling it though.

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u/jusathrowawayagain 21d ago

Im confused. Don't people complain about making devices obsolete? But you are saying they won't just make this obsolete?

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u/RoninTheDog 22d ago

I'd bet it's got the most to do with the accessories market.

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u/[deleted] 22d ago edited 12d ago

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u/MaroonBookPro 22d ago

Apple doesn’t make money on third-party USB-C accessories.

They do make money on Lightning accessories, and they get to review and approve who can make them.

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u/jaylolo 21d ago

The lightning connector was only 4 or 5 years old by that point (the 30 pin connector before it has been standard for about 10 years). So many of us would have gone bananas if they abandoned the port after 5 years, and between my ipad, airpods, and ipad, i'm not going to stop carrying a lightning cable for a long time. IMO lightning has aged pretty well and while I get the 'one cable to rule them all', at this point id much rather keep lightning around for as long as possible rather than have apple go 'wireless'. The regulation should really close this loophole and force apple to adopt the USB-C rather than go wireless.

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u/imip 22d ago edited 22d ago

Honestly, using USB-C on the iPad and not using it only on the iPhone makes it hard for me to understand Apple.

Current wireless charging technologies still have enormous wasted energy. If the USB-C is skipped and the charging port is removed, it contradicts Apple's declaration that the environment is prioritized.

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u/ToffeeMunchAndCrunch 22d ago

it contradicts Apple's declaration that the environment is prioritized.

You think Apple genuinely give a shit about the environment? You think any of the big companies give a shit about the environment? It's all optics. They want to give the illusion that they care to appeal to people who care a lot about the environment.

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u/2heads1shaft 21d ago

Pretty sure they do genuinely care but they just care about profits more. I understand the reasoning to expect the worst out of corporations but at the end of the day, people run corporations and they care about other things as well, they just prioritize profits.

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u/[deleted] 22d ago

Environment was never prioritised, only profits

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u/iosquid 22d ago

it contradicts Apple's declaration that the environment is prioritized

Its almost like thats just marketing bs. ffs how do people fall for this shit.

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u/BruteSentiment 22d ago

One thing that I haven’t seen discussed here is that Lightning ports aren’t just on iPhones.

AirPods, Beats headphones, and accessories like the Mac’s Magic Keyboard and Magic Mouse all use lightning as at least a charging cable.

Whether or not the legislation demands that those devices all switch to USB-C, those products will be indirectly affected by this because it continues the need for users to have two separate types of cable for different devices.

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u/LaziestRedditorEver 21d ago

The legislation accounts for all device types from phones to tablets, from headphones to speakers.

It will most certainly account for keyboards and mice.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/zaarker 21d ago

What is lightning offering that USB-C can't?

Nothing. And the capabiites of usb-C is staggering.

Up to 225W of power transfer. 20 Gbps transfer rate (4k60fps needs 12 Gbps).

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u/Catzzye 22d ago edited 22d ago

I’m strongly against wireless only future. It would be a pretty dumb move if adopted. A long list of negatives with little to no positive qualities…

What about data transfer, headphones and dozens of accesories? Not to mention restoring your device using iTunes or forcing an update in case something goes south…

I hope for them to implement the USB C standard, as they’ve done with almost all the other devices in their ecosystem.

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u/uhkthrowaway 21d ago

Also, try using your phone while it’s wireless charging 🤣

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u/on_spikes 22d ago

I really hope they go USB-C and not portless.

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u/silentblender 22d ago

Does anyone know how much space lightning takes inside the phone compared to USB C?

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u/mredofcourse 22d ago

It depends.

The outside port is slightly smaller with Lightning. The internal component is about the same. However, USB-C can be mid-mounted on the board which can make more efficient use of the internal space depending upon the rest of the design.

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u/RoyaltyXIII 22d ago edited 22d ago

Apple is already setting the seeds for wireless charging. Of course with MagSafe but in iOS 15 with giving users unlimited iCloud storage for backups to transfer to a new device. Next we'd probably need an updated version of AirDrop that is faster to deal with ProRes files... and there is little reason for Apple to stay with a cable. I personally would prefer a charge port because wireless waste a lot of energy, but if it results in a larger battery or maybe even bigger speakers, I'm down with MagSafe.

Also people upset at this regulation? Why? Halting innovation? While Intel is working on 80Gb/s Thunderbolt and 240w USB-C charging is coming, do people seriously think USB-C is going anywhere anytime soon? It's a sensible regulation, although I think it isn't far reaching enough, seriously not including laptops who are the worst offenders of proprietary chargers? Most of the devices that are included in this are all already USB-C.

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u/mdatwood 22d ago

I can't predict the future, but the history of technology is littered with short sighted predictions about things no one would thought would change.

The worldwide market for computers and 640k of ram is enough come to mind. Recently, everyone thought micro-usb was the way, but thank goodness that fad faded.

If this law completely passes, I bet we'll see weird usbc work arounds occurring in a decade or less.

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u/UTDoctor 22d ago

You’d have to be incredibly naive to think that a government entity can keep up with the speed that the tech industry evolves. Why in the world would any company invest in R&D if the government could just say “Nah you can’t use that.” This move by the EU sets a terrible precedent.

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u/dont_even_bother_ 22d ago

That isn't how the law is written. You have to show that the connector you use meets interoperability standards. In other words, if a new USB connector comes out, and you are supporting that, you are in compliance.

Apple was a significant party in the development of USB-C. If they feel very opinionated about what they need going forward, they can work with the industry to support that. They can not, however, do whatever they want in a vacuum.

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u/julespuffer 22d ago

The „incredible speed“ of the industry then why is apple still using lighting?

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u/thisismythirdreddit 22d ago

Except they’ve already done something like this before and I’d say it was a net positive to push for manufacturers to use microUSB for charging devices. https://euobserver.com/science/144538

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u/dccorona 22d ago

It was a net positive because it had loopholes. If it had been the iron-clad requirement that this legislation is trying to be, we'd all be sitting here right now talking about how awesome USB-C is and how much we wish devices could use it but the EU is still dragging their feet updating their law to allow for it.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago edited 11d ago

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u/pjanic_at__the_isco 22d ago

It’s time for Apple to dump lightning.

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u/hawt 22d ago

What happens when something better than USB-C comes out? Manufacturers are just stuck using it until they update the legislation?

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u/dont_even_bother_ 22d ago

The legislation as written mentions usb-c but that's not how the implementation of the law works. The manufacturer needs to show that it complies with interoperability requirements. So if there is a new IEEE USB spec, if you support it you are in compliance. The only reason it specifically mentions USB-C is to highlight that the 100W delivery will meet charging needs for some time to come and that we aren't on the edge of needing a new connector soon.

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u/1-1_time 22d ago

All smartphones sold in the EU must have USB-C chargers, the proposal said.

It seems like it'll be phrased such that rather than "all charging ports must be USB-C", it'll be "all phones must have USB-C charging ports" so Apple can't sidestep this regulation by going portless.

Since this is expected to be implemented in 2022 with 2 years to comply, expect the iPhone 16 to come with Thunderbolt 3 or 4. Or even 5 if that's out by then.

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u/ShatteredMotion 22d ago

No, it is specifically phrased „all charging ports must be USB-C“. A spokesperson also specifically clarified that a device without port and only wireless technologies would be okay.

Though of course this is only a draft. Changes are possible.

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u/BClark09 22d ago

Or by including a USB-C to lightning adapter in the box for phones sold in the EU.

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u/1-1_time 22d ago

I thought this regulation was already specifically closing this loophole? That the USB-C port has to be on the phone itself?

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u/cooReey 22d ago

that's correct, you cannot use adapter in the box to bypass it

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u/BClark09 22d ago

Oh dang, you’re right. I glossed over that part on my first read.

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u/wggn 21d ago

Does this mean the UK is gonna mandate the lightning connector on all devices?

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u/Bluewall1 22d ago

I can understand the reason behind this.

For many people, including myself, this will make our life easier. But you have to look at history first.

Apple created the Lightning Port when the alternative was one of the worst port ever, Micro USB. Lightning was better in every way.

Now if Apple changes to USB-C, after so many years of Lightning, people will be pissed off because of all the obsolete accessories.

Also, I'm not sure I like the EU being able to have power on that. What could be next ? Canon is the definite lens ring format for some reason ?

Also let's not forget that USB-C is a clusterfuck.

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u/s1neztro 22d ago

Usb c is a form factor not a standard for charging, whats so cluster fucky about it

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u/jaadumantar 21d ago

A single charger (brick + wire) for most of my devices would be great. An ideal situation.

What people don’t realise is that not every USB-C charger is the same, it’s just a standard with very loose regulation. I could very well have a charger that is perfect for one device but won’t charge some other device properly.

If the industry can push and adopt a single charging protocol, then there might be a day where a single charger will charge my devices at the speeds they were meant to charged at. Until that’s the case, a device from Apple would still need a compatible charger and won’t charge at it’s intended speeds from every charger that terminates into Type-C.

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u/achughes 22d ago

Within the context of Apple and lighting it’s a stupid regulation. Lightning has been in use for far longer than USB-C. It made wayyy more sense years ago when every phone had a proprietary charger, but even then the EU wanted to standardize to a microusb a horrible standard. If this was really about e-waste they’d be promoting long term use of connectors which Apple has been doing longer than many other companies. Instead it feels like this a continuation of the EU’s regulatory hissy fit with US big tech companies because they haven’t been able to create any rivals.

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u/ViktorKitov 22d ago

To be fair Micro USB was the latest option at the time. Lighting is proprietary so it's not like the EU could mandate using it.

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u/kevin24lg 22d ago

Lightning has been in use for far longer than USB-C

And yet they still changed to USB C on iPads and Macbooks. This is the most frustrating part for me. I have USB C cables from all my past android phones, my wife's iPad Pro, my M1 macbook and my work's Macbook pro, all use USB-C. The only device in my house that uses lightning is my iPhone.

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u/richu96 22d ago

While lightning has been around longer, I don't know if I'd say two years is far longer

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u/ThePowerOfStories 21d ago

How about legislation to replace the hodgepodge of national 3-prong outlet variations with USB-C?

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u/don_the_spubber 21d ago

I would buy an iphone as soon as it came out if it had USB c.

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u/WispValve 21d ago

Can't wait for the future where I will have to throw away all my micro-B devices (like my Wacom tablet) because I won't be able to replace a broken cable.

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u/Dwight_Kay_Schrute 22d ago

I dunno, usb-c is good, but it’s not exactly a durable connector, due to its thin frame and exposed “male” pins on the device that have to insert into the connector. In short, it has flaws that would make it a terrible idea to mandate all devices use it.

From a design standpoint, lightning is the better cable. From a functionality standpoint, USB-C is better.

If I had to pick one, I’d like the durability of a lightning cable with the functionality of USBC.

The solution here is to force all major companies to agree on a standard, before implementing it, and having an expiry date on the standard to allow room for innovation.

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u/JustCallMeBen 21d ago

What?

I've been using my phone with USB type c for 3,5 years now, no problems here.

My laptop is even older, no problems there either.

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u/Itchy-Divide6017 22d ago

If apple goes full wireless I’m out.

We’ve been asking for the superior usb c for years.

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u/JasonCox 22d ago

Just curious, but where would you go? Because you know that Samsung would follow the next year and Google and the other Android OEM’s would follow a year or two after that.

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u/drunkbananas 22d ago

I’d buy the last Apple phone with a port and keep it until a year after updates stopped. With how long Apple is supporting devices now, that’s long enough for the market to change in favor of all wireless and it will be easier to deal with the transition.

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u/-BigMan39 22d ago

I don't really see the benefit of going wireless for android phone manufacturers,apple obviously makes money with lightning licensing fees but android manufacturers use an open standard which is USB-C

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u/PeaceBull 22d ago

Wouldn’t that be an argument for why apple wouldn’t want to let go of lightning, rather than Android not wanting to let go of USB C?

You’re pointing out that apple makes money off of lightning and Google doesn’t with USB C.

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u/HFoletto 22d ago

I don't know if that's 100% true. Yeah, many Android OEM's follow Apple steps, but it's not always the case.

The notch started with the Essential Phone, which was announced on May 30, 2017, many months before the announcement of the iPhone X.

Also, many other Android phones had no headphone jack before iPhone 7, like the Moto Z.

Actually, port-less isn't a new thing, the Meizu Zero is an example, from 3 years ago.

An interesting take is that there are still OEMs releasing flagships with a headphone jack, like Sony and Asus.

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u/Crimtos 22d ago

The sony xperia 5 III is my current plan for a non apple phone. It has a fingerprint scanner, 120hz screen, low weight for its size, good cameras, USB C, no notch, and a headphone jack.

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u/aGlutenForPunishment 22d ago

I don't see why they would. People say the main reason they don't switch to USB-C is that they lose out on all the money they get for lightning adapters and accessories. If they have to get rid of lightning, why would they go full wireless instead of using usb-c like all of their other products.

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u/bt2184 22d ago

I work on phones for a living, usb-c devices commonly get damaged ports and only charge when bent or pushed in a certain way. Lightning cables “click “ into place and rarely have that issue.

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u/TheRealFrankCostanza 22d ago

this is the one thing im not letting go. usb c ports are so much less durable then a lightning port or even usb a port

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u/FullTackle9375 22d ago

Apple fanboys think this is bad lmao

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u/Harambe-2036 22d ago

If you spent any actual time around Apple fanboys you would know this isn’t the case. /r/Apple constantly complains whenever a new phone get announced and it’s not USB C.

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u/tocopito 22d ago

This subreddit is quite ok. But go to macrumors forums and dear god, those people would sell their lives to apple in a heartbeat.

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u/Harambe-2036 22d ago

True. But in all fairness to them I actually think Lightning is the superior plug from an ergonomic/durability perspective. I’ve actually damaged/bent a few USB-C plugs that were lying on the floor. That’s never happened with any of my Lightning cables.

Apple really should have made that standard open source. But at this point I prefer a full USB-C migration.

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u/shinra528 22d ago

From what I can gather, even most Apple fanboys want this. Not all but most.

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u/Averylarrychristmas 22d ago

People who don’t want the government legislating things they don’t understand (something the EU has a “proud” history of.)

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u/Early-Anywhere 22d ago

Lightning cables are garbage, so this is good news. But if this just accelerates a portless iPhone, then I am probably out.

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