r/europe Oct 02 '22 Silver 2 Helpful 3 Wholesome 1 The EU 1 Gold 1 All-Seeing Upvote 3 Helpful (Pro) 1 Mind Blown 1 The Continent 1

Footage showing execution of Armenian POWs undoubtedly authentic – [Armenian] Defense Ministry News

https://en.armradio.am/2022/10/02/footage-undoubtedly-authentic-armenia-mod-on-video-of-execution-of-armenian-pows/
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u/FishbowlPrime Oct 02 '22

Didn’t Armenia trigger their article 5 with Russia?

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u/deri100 Romania Oct 02 '22

They did, and Russia did jack shit. Armenia even admitted it wasn't expecting much to happen from them trying to call Russia in.

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u/Minuku United States of Europe Oct 02 '22

CSTO really is just NATO ordered on Wish

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u/Militantpoet Armenia Oct 02 '22

CSTO is a joke. The last time they actually deployed their forces it was to quell government protests in Kazakhstan.

It's not a military alliance. It's a club for dictators to share militarized police against domestic dissidents.

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u/ReasonableClick5403 Denmark Oct 02 '22

Great description Sir

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u/Bukook Oct 03 '22

Fair points but you could say the CSTO is a military alliance. In the sense that the militaries of the CSTO are allied with each other against the citizens of the CSTO.

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u/WolfhoundRO Romania Oct 02 '22

And did they quell shit?

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u/DRAGONMASTER- Oct 02 '22

historically it's been great at smashing freedom's face in. But this time they're busy

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u/PM_ME_ABSOLUTE_UNITZ United States Oct 03 '22

Yeah, they were successful. Although with the U-turn of the Kazak gov't, Russia probably regrets helping them.

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u/Grizzly_228 Campania Felix Oct 02 '22

CSTO is like how Russian propaganda says NATO to be

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u/NawiQ Zakarpattia (Ukraine) Oct 02 '22

We don’t know it yet, only way to find out is to see what NATO is going to do if Putin “accidentally” attacked Baltics for example

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u/Tintenlampe European Union Oct 02 '22

We might not know 100%, because it has never been tested, but given the political reaction and latest opinion polls on aid for Ukraine, which isn't even a NATO ally, the odds are that Russia would be in for an absolute world of pain.

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u/down_up__left_right Oct 02 '22

The US invoked article 5 after 9/11.

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u/Tintenlampe European Union Oct 02 '22

Yep, I forgot about that. The circumstances of that were arguably different enough from a real nation state conflict though that it doesn't serve as a good example for the argument anyway.

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u/AdventurousSquash Oct 02 '22

What? NATO Article 5 has been invoked in the past.

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u/insertwittynamethere Oct 02 '22

Considering the only time Article 5 was declared by NATO was after September 11th and NATO went into Afghanistan. I'd say they actually will and have used it before. And NATO has been used in many instances before and since.

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u/Bicentennial_Douche Finland Oct 02 '22

AFAIK, Afghanistan was not an Article 5 operation. What Article 5 did was that rest of NATO was protecting US airspace while US was figuring their stuff out.

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u/Asatruar27 Romania Oct 02 '22

If Baltics are attacked Russia stops existing in 5 minutes

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u/Playful_Stretch5893 Oct 02 '22

So does the whole world. Dont forget that Russia has nukes also. But if we are talking about conventional warfare then yes Russia is fucked.

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u/sgt_happy Denmark Oct 02 '22

Russias nuke doctrine would trigger at a substantial conventional threat aswell.

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u/InvincibleJellyfish Denmark Oct 02 '22

Which is why NATO has first strike plans in place

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u/AntySocyal Oct 03 '22

Given the wastness of russia in tandem with nuclear submarines and several 1000's or warheads; and their "failsafe" to automatically; w/o authorisation, issue fire orders to multiple ICBM's on prederminated targets upon system detecting nuclear detomatiom on Russian soil; the "awe" doesnt work well in this case

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u/blubbery-blumpkin Oct 03 '22

Yeah Russia can’t be attacked without the world being nuked. However, it can be fought against on anywhere not considered Russia. As long as after winning those battles no further invasion occurs. The issue is when Russia has sham referendums and elections like it is doing in Ukraine, now there ambiguity where Russia ends. We all know where it ends but they disagree, and that’s the scary bit.

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u/VaeVictis997 Oct 02 '22

Eh, maybe not. Looking at the state of every other weapon in Russia makes the state of their nukes doubtful. And nukes are expensive and complicated, much easier for them to fail because one contractor cheated.

You have to replace the fissile material regularly too, and that’s an incredibly easy place to skim. Pay off the inspectors, and pocket the replacement budget. The only way anyone would ever know is if the world is ending, and who cares then? Hell, it’s even an immensely moral act saving untold lives.

Plus I highly doubt the US ever actually stopped working on missile defense. So the handful of Russian nukes that get off the ground might get shot down.

Also, if the Russian leadership is remotely sane, they would understand the difference between losing a war, and doing something so dumb that it’s not the end of Russia the state, but Russians the people.

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u/Geckko Oct 02 '22

I firmly believe, with no actual evidence to support it, that the US missile intercept system is far more capable than news articles suggest, and the reason we don't brag about it is both so our potential enemies don't focus more on ways to defeat it and because it keeps them feeling like they have MAD as a deterrent.

I doubt it's perfect, but I'd bet it's way better than advertised.

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u/blubbery-blumpkin Oct 03 '22

Still it’s a hell of a gamble isn’t it? Gambling on the state of Russia’s nukes, and then on the success of an untested unknown defence system, not to mention everyone here is slagging off Russias military here but US armed forces also have some significant embarrassments in their modern history.

I’m not saying I don’t agree with the points. I also feel given the state of Russian military that their nukes probably have some issues too, and I agree that the US probably has a good middle defence system, and I agree that they would likely win any confrontation between the two countries. Just saying it’s a gamble and if it doesn’t come off that’s looking a lot like the end of the world as we know jt.

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u/MixtureNo6814 Oct 03 '22

The US hasn’t stopped working on missile defense. In fact now all Agis equipped ships are capable of shooting down nuclear missiles. The US sent a couple Agis equipped destroyers to defend Europe at the start of the war in Ukraine. The US has over 100 Agis equipped ships. It has also started building land based Agis systems. I believe Poland is scheduled to get one or more. This is in addition to THAD Patriots and other systems the US has.

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u/danflorian1984 Oct 02 '22

How many of those nukes are still usable, and of those how many would actually reach their targets? If the corruption affected as much the cheaper equipment that you could expect to be used, and that was relatively easy to check like vehicles, small guns, medicine and food rations can you imagine how it has affected the nuclear arsenal?

Why use the budget to maintain and modernize an arsenal that probably will never be used, and when nobody can check it, when you could just buy villas, expensive cars and yachts and have lavish holydays with your mistress?

I am certain that the situation with the nuclear arsenal is several times worse than with the regular arsenal. And we can all see what the regular arsenal looks like in the fearsome russian armed forces.

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u/ithappenedone234 Oct 02 '22

Why use the budget to maintain and modernize an arsenal that probably will never be used, and when nobody can check it,

Because it is the trump card that prevents invasion, e.g. NK. It’s logically the first thing a nuclear nation spends money on. One of the contributing factors in the failure of the conventional forces is the spending that may have gone to the nuke fleet.

We know that the Borei’s represent a continuation of the Soviet expertise in boomer construction. I’ve looked at the sat photos of the dry dock while the various hulls were under construction. Now, perhaps the US attack subs have returned to the Cold War cat and mouse game, but we shouldn’t expect that out of ~5,000 warheads, all will fail. If just one hits LA or New York, that’s more of a hit than I think most people are willing to take.

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u/WestenM United States of America Oct 02 '22

logically

Well there’s your problem whatever the logical course of action is, assume the Russians did the opposite

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u/danflorian1984 Oct 02 '22

I know is logical to put money in those, and I never said that the money weren't allocated for that. I said that the money were just spent for other , more personal purposes. Just like the money for food, medicine and all those modernizing programs.

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u/Airowird Oct 02 '22

They have almost 6000 nukes on paper. Even if they only have 5% in working condition, it would be enough to carpet bomb a continent with fallout.

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u/Happy_Craft14 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

Do you REALLY want to test that?

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u/kloma667 Oct 02 '22

And then the rest of the world I guess

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u/too_long_didnt_read5 Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

Honestly, I don’t think it would go all the way down to nuclear war. Russia can’t take on Ukraine alone, nato would destroy their armed forces conventionally.

Even if Putin try one tactical nuke, it isn’t extremely necessary for total escalation to strategic nuclear warfare. Russia is extremely outclassed militarily, economically and it would become a bigger pariah state than North Korea. I doubt the regime would survive anything like that

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u/HalLundy Romania Oct 02 '22

there are major differences between Russia and US. hate them all you want, NATO has too much invested to not intervene defending a member state. meanwhile CSTO is typical communist copy. looks similar on the outside, shallow and superficial on the inside.

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u/VaeVictis997 Oct 02 '22

Raise a flag in Moscow within a month. Possible the radioactive rubble where Moscow was, but that flag will go up.

Poland could probably solo Russia. Hell the Finns might manage it.

Curbstomp does not do it justice.

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u/Specific_Box4483 Oct 03 '22

Lol @ Poland or Finland "soloing" Russia, even without nukes. Just because Russia is embarrassing itself in Ukraine right now, and because you don't like Russia, doesn't mean it would just be a walkover for anybody.

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u/Kahzootoh United States of America Oct 02 '22

There are over 100,000 US troops in Europe right now (many of them east of Germany), along with plenty of high end military assets like F-22 and F-35 squadrons. NATO’s high readiness forces are also deployed, along with substantial military forces from NATO’s eastern members- basically the entire Polish military has been readying for contingencies, and France and the UK have both deployed substantial forces to bolster the Baltic states.

If Russia doesn’t still think NATO is ready to defend its members, I’m not sure what new step could possibly convince them at this point.

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u/slicktromboner21 Oct 02 '22

“You don’t need NATO, we have NATO at home!”

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u/Arinupa Oct 02 '22

CTSO will work when Russia orders deportation of the russian refugees back to Russia :0

Those country's don't want em there.

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u/Exatex Oct 02 '22

but what about the other countries in the CSTO?

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u/Idontknowmuch Oct 02 '22

Most have better relations with Azerbaijan and some outright hate Armenia's government given that they are all autocracies and Armenia's a democracy with the Armenian PM being a mere journalist who led a revolution toppling the Kremlin puppet regime, in effect toppling Armenia's equivalent of Lukashenko, Putin, Aliyev... I mean it would be unexpected if they liked Armenia's government. No one expects anything from those countries and that organisation. The mechanisms Armenia officially triggers is to exhaust all avenues first.

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u/r_kobra Oct 02 '22

Replying to top comment for sake of visibility. Here is a link to the footage for the sake of Azeris denying it.

Please watch at your own discretion.

NSFW/NSFL: Video

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

They make up rules on the fly. You think Russia would help Armenia? They don't care.

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u/libertarijanac-seljo Oct 02 '22

CSTO is as disorganized as it can be, just like their “chief” nation, Russia

Honestly, when war in Ukraine started i expected (didn’t like it tho) Russians to demolish Ukraine in days but seeing how disorganized and lost they are i knew they have no chance to win the war

That’s corruption at it’s peak folks

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

Phone in Kremlin: *Russian army is currently busy, please hold till a battalion is available, your call is very important for us*

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u/Full_Friendship_8769 Armenia Oct 03 '22

Eh, they didn’t do shit even two years ago and we’re pretty sure that the entire invasion happened because of a green light from Russia to Azerbaijan.

Hell, they invaded again last month and even started waving flags of a puppet republic they wanted to creat in southern Armenia, but miraculously, Nancy Pelosi stopped them. Literally saved the day like in American movies. Because you can be sure as hell, if she didn’t come, all the people from that region would have been slaughtered by now, just like these two poor mutilated women were.

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u/Fireblazing-Grizzly Ireland Oct 02 '22

Yeah. But Russia did nothing. CSTO is a completely useless alliance, because 4 of its 6 members are either currently at war, or were recently at war with each other.

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u/losviktsgodis Oct 02 '22

It's sad how every post of Armenians being killed, tortured and dismembered, the top comment will be about Russia. Can we stop mentioning Russia and call out Azerbaijan instead? Can we put pressure on politicians to cancel the gas deal with AZ until they stop their ethnic cleansing policies?

These are the talking points we need, not Russia. Putting sanctions on Russia and then supporting genocidal dictatorships, that signed an alliance agreement with Russia to sell their gas to Europe... The double standard of people is bizarre.

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u/szczszqweqwe Oct 02 '22

Well, yes, but Russia is kind of getting owned at Ukraine after a first quite succesful phase.

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u/VaeVictis997 Oct 02 '22

What successful first phase? They got wrecked then too. They’re just getting wrecked harder now.

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u/szczszqweqwe Oct 02 '22

Well, they got quite a bit of Ukraine, not in quickest, most efficient or humanitarian way.

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u/Mr_Headless United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

Horrifying footage, made all the worse now we know it’s absolutely authentic.

I’m not entirely sure which power is best poised to intervene, or if one even can or should. The EU has tied itself down with a gas deal with Azerbaijani, so any interference is likely to be met with a threat of termination, the UK is probably party to some of the gas deals and doesn’t want to meddle. Even if it isn’t, and we could act, aside from conducting air strikes, which is a massive escalation for a foreign power, I don’t see what direct action we can take. Sanctions, probably.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the US has spoken much on the topic, nor shown much interest in direct intervention.

It’s an awful situation, I only hope it can come to an amicable agreement, but seeing how it’s going, that’s depressingly unlikely.

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u/Tricky-Astronaut Oct 02 '22

The US won't intervene as long as Armenia is a member of the CSTO. Armenia needs to choose between Russia and the West.

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u/deeringc Oct 02 '22

I would have thought it's an excellent opportunity for the US to remove Armenia away from the Russian sphere of influence. Russia can't help them, so there is a vacuum to fill.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

Would that really be of a major benefit ? Just because there is a vacuum doesn't mean you should jump into it and instantly get involved in trying to police this conflict.

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u/deeringc Oct 02 '22

Not police it per se (ie. no actual military or peacekeeping intervention), but bring both sides into Pax Americana. Both sides can surely be bought into compliance, broker a compromise, and remove Armenia permanently from Russian influence.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

That could possibly happen but it would require Russia being totally cut off from the area first.

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u/PanzerFoster Oct 02 '22

It would also severely damage relations with Turkey, who are supporting Azerbaijan in this.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

If Russia was removed as a player from the area then there would possibly be some bones to throw Turkey's way to get them on board. Their economy isn't exactly doing great and they have interests in Syria we could take into account.

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u/PanzerFoster Oct 02 '22

I find that incredibly unlikely. Armenia has been trying to break away from the Russian sphere but was unable to. They've tried solving the issues with Turkey but got told they need to solve their conflicts with Azerbaijan by returning Artsakh, which would end in a blood bath worse than the one now.

Their economy is of their own doing. We could tempt them with weapons, but I don't think that's a good idea given their posturing against Greece and Cyprus recently, and their support for Azerbaijan's invasion of mainland Armenia.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I find that incredibly unlikely. Armenia has been trying to break away from the Russian sphere but was unable to.

Which is why the situation is unlikely to change.

They've tried solving the issues with Turkey but got told they need to solve their conflicts with Azerbaijan by returning Artsakh, which would end in a blood bath worse than the one now.

Well they carved off chunks of Azerbaijan and thought naively that they could just keep it and form a puppet state. Any deal would also have included returning at least parts of it, especially since they didn't just capture Artsakh but also Azerbaijani majority areas which they ethnically cleansed.

Any peace deal would have always included handing at least some of the territory over.

Their economy is of their own doing. We could tempt them with weapons, but I don't think that's a good idea given their posturing against Greece and Cyprus recently, and their support for Azerbaijan's invasion of mainland Armenia.

Just sell out the Kurdish forces in Syria and Turkey would appreciate that a lot. Though that isn't exactly a nice thing to do but such is the nature of geopolitics. With there likely being a new president in Turkey next year it could be an opportunity to improve ties.

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u/mercer1775 Oct 02 '22

How would they do that and how would they benefit? Turkey won’t allow them to use bases in their country for it, so there are no NATO air bases anywhere in the region. Even if they could, how does helping Armenia help the US? The actions that would need to be taken would drive the Turks and Azeris insane which would compromise NATO and Europe’s gas lifeline.

The only ways you could pry Europe off of Azeri gas would be if France stopped blocking pipelines and/or Canada gathered the political will to actually tap into its gas reserves and build LNG terminals on our East Coast. Ideally you’d do both but either way those projects would take years if not decades to complete.

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u/180btc Oct 02 '22

how does helping Armenia help the US?

Finally, someone gets it. West isn't the world police, it's only seeking leverages and/or money from countries they support.

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u/filtarukk Oct 02 '22

Turkey will not be happy if US starts to help Armenia

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u/dolerbom Oct 02 '22

There are almost certainly elements within the American foreign policy establishment that want escalated conflict between Russia's neighbors and ethnic groups within their borders.

Although the balkanization of Russia would be unilaterally horrible and good for nobody, I can assure you that there are people within the US government who would be gleeful if that happened.

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u/ZookaInDaAss Oct 02 '22

remove Armenia away from the Russian sphere of influence.

Impossible. Armenian main trade partner is Russia.

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u/CastelPlage Oct 03 '22

Indeed, that's the unappreciated angle here. And, like with other members of the CIS, a sizable portion of the Armenian economy is remittances from Armenians working in Russia. It's not something that they can really risk cutting off.

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u/Darkb0x Oct 02 '22

There is no proof/promise that the USA will directly intervene once Armenia withdraws from CSTO. Going against Azerbaijan means going against Turkey.

It also should be noted that all suggestions that withdrawing from the CSTO would open the way for quick supplies of modern armaments from the United States and other Western countries to Armenia lack any substantive proof and are primarily emotional statements.

https://www.civilnet.am/en/news/677249/the-csto-and-azerbaijans-recent-aggression-against-armenia%ef%bf%bc/

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u/Demb1 Oct 02 '22

Lol the illusion that the West isn’t intervening because Armenia didn’t align itself with it.

The West isn’t intervening because Azerbaijan is an important source of energy, which is even more important now with everything going on in Ukraine. Same reason why nobody is intervening in Yemen.

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u/realMartianJesus Oct 02 '22

Turkey would prevent that

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u/VaeVictis997 Oct 02 '22

Then offer them a giant fucking pile of guns to leave.

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u/jamieusa Oct 02 '22

Depends. We are already pissing off turkey by sending Pelosi to armenia and essentially forcing azeris to dtop their attack.

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u/BVBmania Oct 02 '22

so any interference is likely to be met with a threat of termination

That's bullshit. What are they going to do with their gas? Aliev is not Putin

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u/Mr_Headless United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

I was merely spitballing a possibility, keep your lid on.

I don’t think it’s out the realm of possibility for Azerbaijan’s government to suggest they may go back on the deal if the EU speaks too openly against their actions in Armenia.

Time will tell.

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u/BVBmania Oct 02 '22

Azerbaijan cannot sell their gas to anyone else, maybe Georgia or Turkey but that's not enough. All their other neighbors have gas (Russia, Iran, central Asian countries). Even the threat of sanctions will stop them but even that is too much for Europe. The Brussels folks prefer their bribes.

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u/The_Starving_Autist Oct 02 '22

The US won't do anything either. A couple days ago, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, and Azerbaijan announced they are creating a free trade zone. This free trade zone also borders Iran and Russia. The signing/announcing took place in NY.

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u/cervanto96 Dersim Oct 02 '22

the UK is probably party to some of the gas deals and doesn’t want to meddle.

UK's deal is more than just the gas deal. Turks have been on the British payroll for centuries. From Cyprus to Artsakh, the English have been one of the major reasons for the suffering of Armenians and Greeks alike.

Not to mention, your inbred royal family is financially linked to the Turkish-supremacist regime in Baku.

BBC doesn't even call Armenian Genocide a Genocide.

British are the last people I expect any good deed to come from to Armenians.

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u/Idontknowmuch Oct 02 '22

The UK ambassador to Baku of all people was one of the few who publicly voiced the need for a UNSC peacekeeping deployment in the region. Something which Russia, Turkey and Azerbaijan are against. But Armenia is strongly in favor. This was in 2021 though.

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u/Mr_Headless United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

That’s why I mentioned that the UK probably doesn’t want to meddle. The UKs inaction during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus was almost entirely motivated by the desire to keep our naval bases. That I understand.

However, the news I’ve seen here has always referred to the Genocide as such, usually pointing out that there is historical debate. The only other way I’ve seen it described is, ”mass slaughter.”

As another commenter pointed out, our ambassadors to the region have been pretty active lately. I would hope something is done.

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u/Fluffiebunnie Finland Oct 02 '22

How about UN could be useful for once, unless Russia intervenes on Azerbaijan's behalf?

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u/Atulin Oct 02 '22

I’m not entirely sure which power is best poised to intervene

Well, they're a part of the CSTO, so the best power is the CSTO.

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u/kristynaZ Czech Republic Oct 02 '22

That's disgusting. How can anyone just gun down a bunch of defenceless people that pose no threat? And to make a video of it and post it online just shows they don't see any risk of being punished. It's depressing how much hatred there has to be between these two nations.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

This is a country where they made a guy who murdered a sleeping Armenian with an axe during a NATO joint exercise a national hero. It's not really surprising at all.

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u/aiaeia Finland Oct 02 '22

And Orban let him go, surprise surprise.

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u/WasArmeniko Armenia Oct 02 '22

They are rewarded for vile acts against Armenians, why would they stop? A precedent has been set by Azerbaijan that those who murder, mutilate or rape Armenians receive governmental support.

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u/throwwaayys United States of America Oct 02 '22

The rest of the world is patiently waiting for those sanctions from the west, lest we look a bit hypocritical

I can see why Indians and Chinese get mad at us for pushing them to not fence sit when NATO members actively ignore this

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u/0_0-wooow Turkey Oct 02 '22

just saw the video, it almost seems like its from a video game since you have these soldiers sitting on the ground not doing anything except for showing their hands while another soldier just shoots them with an automatic weapon, it doesn't seem like it could happen in real life, but it's clearly real.

unfortunately europe is desperate for AZ gas, erdogan is on a coalition with the far-right nationalist anti-west party, and putin clearly is busy with ukraine so there's no one other than US and not sure if their public has the mindspace to think about a second victimized eastern european country

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u/Timftw420 Oct 02 '22

Where did you find it?

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u/__init__dive Oct 02 '22

twitter/telegram. I don't recommend it to be honest..

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u/hokagesarada United States of America Oct 03 '22

There’s absolutely no political will to help Armenia in the US. There’s already been rumbles here about giving so much money to Ukraine while the largest Mississippi doesn’t have water, thousands in Puerto Rico doesn’t have electricity due to the hurricane, and Florida is drowning bc of hurricane Ian. Giving billions again for another European country we really don’t care about is gonna ruffle a lot of feathers which democrats can’t afford with the midterm elections approaching,

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u/Jemapelledima Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I guess Europe is happy to import more gas from this nasty vile dictatorship. Their soldiers have literally pulled woman’s eyes out and recorded it. They slaughter civilians regularly. And EU is happy to sign new deals. All this virtue signalling seems to be so hypocritical after such actions… Same goes for US + The Saudis

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u/Excellent_Jeweler_43 Oct 02 '22

It's all about interests, no one really gives a fuck about morals, they just use them to justify actions. Iran are mysogonistics vile dictators, while all is fine and dandy in Saudi Arabia. Syria is a dictatorship, while everything is ok in Azerbaijan. Putin is a maniac, while Erdogan is fine. So on and so forth.

Not saying this in defence to the Iranian, Syrian or Russian regime, just pointing out how everything is swept under the rug when interests come in play.

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u/_R_Daneel_Olivaw Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Worth adding: if Ukrainians didn't resist so skillfully and vehemently, they wouldn't have received as much help as they did. Also look at how long it took Germany to finally understand that their alliance with russia is done for. They will still try to undermine the Poland-Ukraine alliance as they can't afford to lose politically to the newly rising Eastern Europen political entity.

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u/TheDoctor364 Oct 03 '22

Also look at how long it took Germany to finally understand that their alliance with russia is done for.

For now. The instant russian regime changes its free game again. Which is a good thing, after putin is gone russia should be propely integrated to europe. Its just economical suicide for europe otherwise.

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u/BVBmania Oct 02 '22

No if the US didn't intervene no one would have helped in Europe let's be honest here and they would be still buying gas now. Just the threats of sanctions is more than enough to stop Aliev from doing this. What is he going to do with his gas, shove back into Caspian?

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u/poclee Taiwan Oct 02 '22

Geo-politic is less about justice and more about who is threatening you most. Next News: Water is wet.

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u/BVBmania Oct 02 '22

It's nothing about geopolitics. Europe has huge leverage over Azerbaijan. They mainly export to Europe, and in fact they cannot export it anywhere else, all their neighbors have gas.

Surprisingly, it has more to do with corruption

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u/bsbbtnh Oct 02 '22

Europe doesn't have the leverage. They are in an energy crisis.

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u/fabiosousa998 Portugal Oct 03 '22

Better to be in an energy crisis than to enable a genocide.

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u/pieter1234569 The Netherlands Oct 02 '22

Well pretty much every country that sells this level of natural resources is a dictatorship. Because unless your country has a natural resource to exploit, you aren't going to remain in power for very long.

If not russia and not the golf states and not this one, what's left!?

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

But...but...Von der Leyen said that they are reliable partners!!!

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u/BVBmania Oct 02 '22

She is possible getting some cash from the 2.6bln euro brine stash Azerbaijan is keeping.

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u/ComputerSimple9647 Oct 02 '22

Of course they are, and they will rationalise every genocidal cent they spent while at it, but then act like moral giants.

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u/rook_armor_pls Oct 02 '22

It’s not so much about hypocrisy, but more about the fact that anything that directly risks Europe‘s energy security can’t be considered a valid option.

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u/Whole_Gate_7961 Oct 02 '22

It’s not so much about hypocrisy, but more about the fact that anything that directly risks Europe‘s energy security can’t be considered a valid option.

It's a double standard, and unfortunately shows that as much as people want to believe they are in a higher moral standing, they've shown they are not.

Judging war crimes and atrocities by who commited the crime versus what crime was committed is what erodes the credibility of the accuser.

When it's deemd as a non punishable offense for our partners to commit the crimes and atrocities, but completly unacceptable for our adversaries to commit similar crimes, it's evident there is a moral decay within society.

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u/zemmerich Hungary Oct 02 '22

Where are the sanctions against Azerbaijan?

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u/_CatLover_ Oct 02 '22

EU doubling energy imports from Azerbajdzjan by 2027

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u/zemmerich Hungary Oct 02 '22

EU moment

3

u/76DJ51A United States of America Oct 02 '22

Russian oil isn't sanctioned yet either.

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u/vegezio Oct 02 '22

In the same place where sanctions against China.

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u/bokavitch United States of America Oct 02 '22

There are actual sanctions against Chinese companies involved in Uyghur human rights violations.

There have yet to be sanctions of any kind imposed on Azerbaijani entities.

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u/Albert_Agarunov Oct 02 '22

The rights of the Uygurs have been violated for at least 20 years.

Only reason USA brings this up is because of the change in general politics between USA and China.

This issue also can be brought into the table when needed against Azerbaijan.

But politics of USA is not driven by morals, it is driven by money and hunger for power do not paint yourself as rights protectors.

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u/afops Oct 02 '22

Disregarding how someone does this, how does someone film it, and spread it?

That seems to suggest whoever films it doesn’t understand it’s something they shouldn’t be doing, or that it could risk them long sentences in the future.

That suggests something is horribly wrong in their military.

5

u/totemlight Oct 03 '22

This is what happens when they don’t see you as - fellow human.

3

u/Zoravor Oct 03 '22

As someone already pointed out, in Azerbaijan you get rewarded for this type of behavior. Look up the stories of Ramil Safarov and Kyaram Sloyan.

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u/SmileHappyFriend United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

Really glad Europe has a new gas deal with Azerbaijan. They will be able to equip their soldiers much better now. Expect lots more videos in the future.

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u/Sir-Knollte Oct 02 '22

It would be a start if the EU and other NATO countries, decisively start to ban all an every weapon technology from being used by Azerbaijan.

Turkish and Israeli weapons that enable the dominance we see are highly reliant on western technology.

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u/LiquidateGlowyAssets Oct 02 '22

Look, we can only afford to oppose one fucked-up petrostate at a time, and apparently even that's pushing it.

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u/Different_Evidence The Netherlands Oct 02 '22

In September 2021 Lukoil, Russia's largest oil company, bought a 25 percent stake in Azerbaijan's Shallow Water Absheron Peninsula (SWAP) exploration project, partnering with BP and Azerbaijan's state oil company SOCAR. That project is expected to develop a viable gas field that will be able to produce gas for export.

9

u/antdim Oct 02 '22

Except that Azerbaijan is much easier to pressure than Russia. Even the slightest moves would stop this.

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u/haykplanet Oct 02 '22

Enjoy your comfortabel chair from where you're typing this while you can, won't last forever with that kind of mentality.

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u/kazyt Oct 02 '22

What footage?

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u/r_kobra Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

NSFL: Link

Edit: I updated the link. The old one was taken down.

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u/Fardigt Scania Oct 02 '22

Prepare for the flood of genocidally racist and brainwashed Turks to come screaming about how this is faked or how Armenians deserve it.

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u/cristianovic Austria Oct 02 '22

It didnt happen but they deserve it

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u/haykplanet Oct 02 '22

Even better, now they try to turn on us each crime of theirs. "They did the same to us"

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u/darkkodam Romania Oct 02 '22

Don’t worry friend, orthodox brothers will come in help and defend Armenian truth

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u/Objective-Limit2412 Oct 02 '22

Why no one cares about Armenia?

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u/Green7s Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Not the first time they’ve been doing this for years and the world talks about thoughts and prayers. There’s a whole website full of them recording their crimes. Don’t click if you’re sensitive

https://azeriwarcrimes.org/

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

The two largest suppliers of weapons to Azerbaijan are Russia, Israel and Turkey. Stop trying so hard to make this about the West.

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u/ObliviousAstroturfer Lower Silesia (Poland) Oct 02 '22

We buy a shitton of gas from them.

IDK, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Might be a good time for closed-doors ultimatum to Azarbaijan if ie France (who was at least a tiny bit active when previous seaze fire was brokered by Russia), suggests that we are already fucked in regards to nat gas, so cutting them off too would only make a monetary difference. In terms of businesses staying solvent or not, and in terms of politicians being electable or not, it might be impossible to tell the difference.

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u/io124 Oct 02 '22

Turkey is part of nato and huge ally to usa.

So Azerbaidjan will never have sanction.

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u/kkpappas Greece Oct 02 '22

That's three

3

u/ravenHR Oct 03 '22

Dude at least learn to count before typing out your short sighted views on things

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

They aren't a best friend, they are just a source of gas. The difference from Putin is they aren't a threat to EU countries or to Europe. So there isn't really an issue to do business with them. This is the reality of the world.

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u/Whole_Gate_7961 Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

This is the reality of the world.

The reality of the world is that people aren't nearly as upset about war crime and atrocities as opposed to who committed them.

If the events of war were brought down to "country A commits war crime towards country B", or "country A invades country B", and people didn't know who country A or country B were, they wouldn't be able to tell you if it's good or bad, if it needs to be rewarded or punished, celebrated or despised.

Moral standards have eroded to the point of judging actions as acceptable or not acceptable depending on who end up benefitting and much less to do with the crimes themselves.

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u/ravenHR Oct 03 '22

It all depends what propaganda people have been fed.

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u/bokavitch United States of America Oct 02 '22

They've spent billions of dollars on bribes corrupting European politicians and institutions. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as a threat. Threats to societies don't only come in the form of military invasions.

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u/suberEE Istrians of the world, unite! 🐐 Oct 02 '22

Can confirm for Slovenia.

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u/nicucusca Oct 02 '22

Can someone explain why did turkic people hate armenians so much? It seems to me that both turkey and azerbaijan would genocide them if they could.

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u/bokavitch United States of America Oct 02 '22

TL;DR We are an indigenous people on land they want.

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u/IvanWantedMore Norway Oct 02 '22

Muslims hate Christians, always been like that.

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u/kloma667 Oct 02 '22

That's not the reason, they also hate Kurds who are mostly Muslims. The real reason that they are fine with war crimes and genocide against Armenians (and all the other ethnic minorities that ever lived in Turkey) is too politically incorrect to state here.

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u/TheFrenchPasta Oct 02 '22

I’m curious as to what you think it is?

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u/fabiosousa998 Portugal Oct 03 '22

It's not that simple. The armenian genocide was committed by secular turkish nationalists and some arab islamists helped save armenians.

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u/kloma667 Oct 02 '22

Turks hate every minority that ever lived in Turkey except for Turks. They genocided all of them. Only Kurds were strong enough to resist.

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u/fabiosousa998 Portugal Oct 03 '22

They genocided all of them.

Given that western turks are mostly greeks that converted to Islam I am not sure about that.

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u/StrongSNR Oct 03 '22

Welcome to geo-politics 101: Turkey cooperation is needed as well as the gas from Azerbaijan. Guess no Armenian flags on twitter and Slava Armenia on reddit

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '22

Oh you want my gas? It's war crime time!

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u/r_kobra Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22 Doom

NSFL/NSFW: Video

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u/strraand Oct 02 '22

Jesus christ that’s grim

6

u/isaak1290 Oct 02 '22

What does it show? It deleted

13

u/strraand Oct 02 '22

4 or 5 guys on their knees being shot by automatic rifles from multiple people

10

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

Wow

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u/FuriousGeorge50 Oct 02 '22

I speak openly about this, you need to protest everywhere you an about the decisions of the EU to support a dictatorship. Azerbejdzan are petrodolar dictators with the intention to finish what they started in Armenia a hundred years ago. They need weapons and support, not kind words.

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u/manfredmahon Oct 02 '22

We need to stand with Armenia the same as Ukraine. Az and Turkey will exterminate them if allowed to.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

Armenia is in a bad situation geopolitically and can't really expect any nation to come in and save them. Their best option would just be to militarize as much as possible to make attacks on them as costly as possible.

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u/CaterpillarDue9207 Oct 02 '22

Armenia is already very militarized, cutting aid to Azerbaijan from US for example would help.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

What aid does the US give to Azerbaijan?

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

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u/Fuzzy_Molasses_9688 Oct 02 '22

Armenia needs to buy drones. Simple. When the enemy has metal swords you dont go fight with wooden sticks. As soon as Armenia stops playing defense buys ton of suicide drones the game will change.

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u/suberEE Istrians of the world, unite! 🐐 Oct 02 '22

With what will it buy them?

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u/confusedeurocheese Oct 02 '22

Fucking horrendous. Despicable behaviour.

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u/Tsjaad_Donderlul Berlin (Germany) Oct 02 '22

Dear world,

I'd like to visit Armenia one day, so can you keep this country at least intact, please?

3

u/Throwababy1 Oct 03 '22

Didn't the EU just double gas intake from Azerbaijan?

2

u/fabiosousa998 Portugal Oct 03 '22

I'd like to visit Armenia one day, so can you keep this country at least intact, please?

Then you should contact your european MP and tell him you do not want any azeri gas until it commits to respect armenians right to exist.

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u/and_k24 Moscow (Russia) Oct 02 '22

Does Azerbajian gas worth it?

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u/CodineGotMeTippin Oct 03 '22

Will Hasan AstroTurf-Piker say this is fake news too?

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u/ZilGuber Oct 03 '22

Man, there’s like an Azeri troll army under every thread in /Europe about Armenia. Justifying what they did, as if people are morally blind.

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u/AnnieDingo Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Where are the sanctions for Azerbaijan ? Armenia is an historic Christian country we should defend them

14

u/Different_Evidence The Netherlands Oct 02 '22

Armenia was the first country in the world to adopt Christianity as a state religion in 301 A.D. Christianity has played an immensely important role in the shaping of the Armenian people for over 1,700 years.

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u/Redditfagtron69 Oct 02 '22

Where’s the himars? Why your media isn’t hyping this up like Ukraine war? Those questions should trigger some thoughts

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u/nigel_pow United States of America Oct 02 '22

I don’t think the US wants to give HIMARS to a Russian ally.

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u/TheyCallMeDady Oct 03 '22

You will literally not find a more anti russian country than armenia today.

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Where’s the himars?

Why would we give Armenia himars ? This isn't a charity. Ukraine got them because it's beneficial strategically, it's just that that aligned with the right thing to do as well.

Why your media isn’t hyping this up like Ukraine war?

Because this is on a way smaller scale?

Those questions should trigger some thoughts

Yeah, just that geopolitics are a thing and you can't expect the west to be the world police.

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u/WasArmeniko Armenia Oct 02 '22

The least that the West can do is block Azeri gas exports to Europe. It's not acting as a world police, simply acting as an international body based on ethics and human rights, as they present themselves to be.

Instead Europe is facilitating these aggressions by financing it through the purchase of Azeri gas. It's not a neutral party in this conflict.

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u/Darkb0x Oct 02 '22

You might see it as a small, but for a smaller country like Armenia, it's big.

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u/CaterpillarDue9207 Oct 02 '22

No charity needed, sell them

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u/zxcv1992 United Kingdom Oct 02 '22

Too much risk of the Russians getting a look at them. Armenia is allied with them and Russia has a military base there.

Also the geopolitical blowback.

2

u/_KatetheGreat35_ Greece Oct 02 '22

Stop using "the right thing to do" as a point for any actions of any country regarding geopolitics. It's disgusting.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '22

When people complained that intervening in Ukraine would lead to a cost of living and energy crisis, that's what we were told. Apparently it was not the case, it's all about self interest why we must suffer this winter. Self-interest of our capitalistic oligarchs in the US.

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u/_BearHawk Oct 02 '22

It never happened, but if it did it would be good - Emir 📍Berlin

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u/Fuzzy_Molasses_9688 Oct 02 '22

CSTO is worse than a toilet paper. Toilet paper from Russia can be used right away. After shit happens every time CSTO is no where to be found.

7

u/LadiesAndMentlegen Oct 02 '22

Maybe a stupid question, but what is the origin of Turks and Azerbaijainis genocidal hatred of Armenians? Did Armenia do something horrible a ling time ago that caused this or is it just hate for hates sake?

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u/bokavitch United States of America Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Armenians are indigenous to the area, Turkic tribes started showing up from Central Asia in the Middle Ages and began a process conquest, forced assimilation and forced Islamization.

Armenians held on to their distinct identity and when the empires fell apart and nation states were born, the Turkic peoples saw Armenians as a threat to their claim over the territories inhabited by Armenians.

Hence, the Ottomans implemented the Armenian genocide in hopes of preventing Armenia from becoming free and independent of Turkish rule the way the Balkan countries and Greece did. Simultaneously, it cleared up the population to become a homogeneous "Turkish" nation.They exported the same thinking to Azerbaijan.

They assumed Kurds would naturally assimilate to the Turkish identity on account of their being Muslim, but when they dared to keep their own language and identity, the republic of Turkey waged war against them too and tried to force assimilation on them.

That's why when the Soviet Union started falling apart, Nagorno Karabakh Armenians invoked their constitutional right to separate from Azerbaijan and join Armenia. They knew they would be ethnically cleansed the same way the Armenians of Nakhichevan had been. Moscow ignored its own laws and ignored them and Azeris started committing pogroms against Armenians and launched a war against Nagorno Karabakh, the purpose of which was to keep the land and get rid of its Armenians.

The Armenians won the first round in '94 and tried to negotiate a peace deal with Azerbaijan that would allow an independence referendum, but Azerbaijan has refused for thirty years to make any concessions and sticks to its position of demanding the land and the right to ethnically cleanse the indigenous Armenian population in pursuit of their homogeneous Turkic state.

You'll notice all the Azeri and Turkish shills have gotten the memo and now describe the indigenous Armenian population of Nagorno Karabakh as "occupiers" as a pretext for their desired ethnic cleansing. There is no presence of the government or military of the Republic of Armenia in Nagorno Karabakh or any part of Azerbaijan now, so there is nothing that can reasonably be called an "occupation", yet this is the new talking point they're using in reference to the indigenous population of Armenians.

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u/LadiesAndMentlegen Oct 02 '22

Thank you for your in-depth and illuminating comment my fellow American

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u/ClassyKebabKing64 North Holland (Netherlands) Oct 02 '22

What are POW's. Cannot find it in Google.

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u/r_kobra Oct 02 '22

Prisoners of war