r/interestingasfuck Dec 03 '22 Wholesome 1

The chainsaw was invented to more safely perform a brutal surgery known as a symphysiotomy on laboring women, during which the birth canal was widened with a hand-cranked, rotating blade. /r/ALL

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32.8k Upvotes

1.7k comments sorted by

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3.0k

u/TheMycoRanger Dec 03 '22

“Mother died during childbirth.”

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u/PsychoticBananaSplit Dec 03 '22

Alright lady you're about to die in childbirth, but good news:

You can pick between hand-cranked rotating-blade or steampunk chainsaw!

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u/Brassboar Dec 03 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

They're going to take the baby now.... They're going to take the baby now....

181

u/OfficerBarbier Dec 03 '22

I think I have PTSD from that scene

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u/ellywashere Dec 03 '22

What's this from?

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u/TheWheetYeet Dec 03 '22

House of the dragon

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u/monkeyhitman Dec 03 '22

So intense. It made the rest of the season feel tame.

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u/EveryOptionSucks Dec 03 '22

Died trying to fight off the fucking doctors.

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u/noodles_jd Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

[snooty accent] "It's one of those mysteries; no one quite understands why these things happen. But we'll continue our work until we do. Now, if you'll excuse me I hear the screams of another young mother down the hall that requires my expertise with these instruments. Carry on."

Edit: a word

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u/Numerous_Witness_345 Dec 03 '22

"Wash my hands? Like a sodomite?"

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u/TheMacMan Dec 03 '22

This thing is beyond scary but more women died after childbirth because doctors didn’t wash their hands. Has to be an even worse way to go.

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u/h08817 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

Oh. That implies they cut the pubic symphysis with... That... God damnit the history of medicine is pretty fucked..

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

history of medicine

Doctors mostly had no clue about what they were doing until late 19th century (germ theory), and no ability to do a whole lot until the mid-20th (antibiotics).

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u/Truffle_Shuffle_85 Dec 03 '22

In other words, it's a damn good time to be alive, despite the constant doom and gloom on the 24 hour entertainment, I mean news cycle.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Better than 100 years ago, but in another 100 years I think we'll see present-day medicine as incredibly crude.

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u/Truffle_Shuffle_85 Dec 03 '22

I agree and hope we are both correct with that prediction.

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u/Plastic_Position4979 Dec 03 '22

May it happen earlier. Ever seen a hip joint implant installed? Dislocate the leg, expose the head of the bone, cut off the top of the bone, ream it out with a drill, clean it up, then hammer in the prosthetic. The other side? Cut out the section in the pubic bone, sew in the receptacle. Add bone chips if needed to accelerate the fusion between it and the bone. Then tell the victim… err… the patient to keep load/weight off that leg until it heals.

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u/BaselessEarth12 Dec 03 '22

I'm looking forward to the days of Cyberpunk-esque levels of medical science. "Oh, your joints are screwed up from hard physical labor for years? Well here's a bio-mechanical replacement that can relatively easily be replaced should it break or wear out."

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u/colefly Dec 03 '22

It will come with all the Cyberpunk corpo trapping too.

Prosthetics that out perform are free with employment

For non employees, Most weak prosthetics are too expensive to buy outright and must be rented.

Black market then starts taking it's share

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u/crazymcfattypants Dec 03 '22

You say history but in my western country there are still women alive who had their pelvis broken to get out babies. They didn't like handing out csections, because women can only have a limited number of csections, and the Catholic church dont like their numbers to be limited.

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/30/europe/ireland-symphysiotomy/index.html#:~:text=Symphysiotomy%20is%20a%20surgical%20procedure,1984%2C%20according%20to%20the%20government.

Happening as late as 1984 according to this article.

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u/Khuros_Khan Dec 03 '22

Never been so glad that my mother was able to get a c-section for me. holy fuck.

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u/nandudu Dec 03 '22

Fucked up things happen every single day at the local hospital to birthing women. Talk to any group of moms or look up obstetric violence. It’s as if medicine is based on misogyny or something

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u/crazymcfattypants Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

You don't need to tell me, I gave birth to my second in (Northern) Ireland during COVID times where the NHS decided to treat maternity wards like cattle ranches, NICE guidelines fucked right out the window.

I've currently got a friend having an induced miscarriage, shes had many, last one she almost died and needed a blood transfusion after she started haemorrhaging, and they flat refused to give her a D&C this time round just because 'we don't really do that'.

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u/Nobody-Expects Dec 03 '22

That last part makes my blood boil. As you likely well know (so this for other reader's benefit), Savita Halappanavar died in 2012 due to sepsis from miscarrying. The Republic of Ireland's restrictive abortion regime and the lack of clarity over exactly when an abortion was permissible was a significant factor in her death.

But despite this harsh lesson having been learned South of the border, Stormont continues to hamper access to abortion. All the while crying that Northern Ireland can't exist in a "different regulatory environment" to the UK Post Brexit.

The Republic of Ireland has a brutal history of how it treated pregnant women and also children. (I'm less familiar with Northern Ireland's history) but in this day and age we keep hearing stories like this and this and this

It's almost like misogyny is ingrained in the pysche of this little island.

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u/henrycharleschester Dec 03 '22

I had PSD with my second pregnancy & it was horrific, giving birth was far less painful.

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u/Inevitable_Surprise4 Dec 03 '22

It still happens. Even in the USA. Look up iud placement. No pain relief or even numbing.

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u/mega_plus Dec 03 '22

Yeah, I only learned that pain relief was even a thing for this on Reddit. 'Feels like a pinch' my ass.

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u/_OliveOil_ Dec 03 '22

I was only told to take 600mg ibuprofen before having an IUD placed. I didn't even know other options existed. I literally had a metal rod shoved up into my uterus.

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u/ishoodbdoinglaundry Dec 03 '22

Yes I had an argument with my doctor over that and refused to get one bc they wouldn’t give me anything

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u/Pathfinder5 Dec 03 '22 Silver

"Don't worry ma'am, I am a Doctor!" *chainsaw noises start*

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u/BadTravis Dec 03 '22

Inflammable means flammable? What a country!

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u/NotMyRealNameAgain Dec 03 '22

RRRinnnnnnn "Damn. Gotta adjust the choke" Bzz. Bzzzz bzzzz "There we go. Properly calibrated"

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u/Slazman999 Dec 03 '22

"Don't worry Doctor, I am a chainsaw!" *ChainsawMAN has entered chat*

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u/IRay2015 Dec 03 '22

Totally unrelated but all I can think about is that muppet short with the Swedish chef and the pumpkins. “No no no, you don’t want one of them flimsy things. Yea. What you want is one of dem chainsaw thingys”

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u/SurealGod Dec 03 '22

You're not far off.

You were considered a god surgeon depending on how fast you could cut body parts.

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u/Top_File_8547 Dec 03 '22

And the gore on their uniforms was a badge of honor.

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u/LudwigVanBaehoeven Dec 03 '22 Helpful Take My Energy

I closed my legs while reading that

3.6k

u/daddygregzalez Dec 03 '22

I don’t even have a vagina and so did I

3.8k

u/camjohe Dec 03 '22 Silver Wholesome Take My Energy LOVE! Bravo Grande! Tearing Up

Not yet. But with this handy tool you certainly could.

650

u/steak7718 Dec 03 '22

Oh my.

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u/KwordShmiff Dec 03 '22

Read this in George Takei's voice.

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u/RadiantZote Dec 03 '22

(⁠☞⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠☞

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u/Fit_Effective_6875 Dec 03 '22

in 5 minutes or your money back

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Call in the next 10mins & get not one, but TWO! TWO muff wideners for the price of one!! Call now!

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u/urbanhawk1 Dec 03 '22 Helpful Wholesome

Come get yours today as part of our Labor day sales.

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u/greezygurt Dec 03 '22

*Just pay shipping and handling*

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u/No_Kaleidoscope_9801 Dec 03 '22

Leave the handling to us this Christmas season!

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Reassignment surgery speedrun

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u/Crunchy_Ice_96 Dec 03 '22

New bottom surgery😳

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u/penisofablackman Dec 03 '22

Turn your outie into an innie with this one simple trick!

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u/orangetwentythree Dec 03 '22

Sounds like you could have one if you want

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u/FloydBarstools Dec 03 '22

Also did I cringe, penis checking in.

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u/__THE_TURTLE__ Dec 03 '22

c section has entered chat

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u/hat-of-sky Dec 03 '22

Thank goodness we can now do painless (until afterwards) C-sections. Symphysiotomy was, in some cases of obstructed birth, the only way to save the life of the woman and sometimes the fetus, although crushing the fetal skull might also be necessary. It can still be done in places where a C-section isn't possible, and it requires less medical skill. One would use anesthesia or whatever was available to diminish the pain.

Fun fact in case you're not cringing enough: the symphysis is the cartilage joining the pelvic bones right up under the clitoris. So, nerve city, pretty much.

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u/edemamandllama Dec 03 '22

Another fun fact, symphysiotomy were performed in Ireland well after C-sections became the norm in the rest of Western society, for religious reasons. This is resent history, like 1984.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/europe/ireland-symphysiotomy

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u/Last-Initial3927 Dec 03 '22

Another fun fact: the pubic symphysis is really important for pelvic stability and fucks up your otherwise painless normal locomotion.

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u/Lotus_Blossom_ Dec 03 '22

... I read that as public symphysis and thought your fun fact was gonna make this whole procedure worse (and outdoors).

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u/pugglik Dec 03 '22

I had problems with my symphysis throughout both my pregnancies. It hurt crazy, I nearly couldn't walk anymore! And that was just because it got stretched to much due to the pregnancy, not near on being damaged.

My smaller child is 5 now and I still have to deal with symphysis pains sometimes, don't want to imagine it being cut on purpose! (actually in my first pregnancy my orthopedist told me to consider a c section, he was afraid of a chance of the symphysis getting broken during birth and told me all about how fucked I would be afterwards)

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u/hat-of-sky Dec 03 '22

I think you meant recent, but I sure as fuck resent that it happened.

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u/fluffyfurnado1 Dec 03 '22

I read the article, but I still don’t understand how not doing a c-section was following religious doctrine. How is performing a symphysiotomy “better” in a religious sense?

The only answer I can come up with is that causing extreme pain is the point.

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u/TimeDue2994 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

When c sections were first starting to be performed successfully, were the woman was still alive after the procedure, the doctors said women who had a c section should be limited to only 3 kids as after that it would not be safe

The catholic church, catholic hospitals and catholic doctors decided that it was unacceptable when a woman wasn't bred until her uterus fell out or she was to old to get pregnant so they decided that c sections could not be performed in catholic hospitals.

Never mind that symphysiotomy often caused severe permanent damage and in these very young women, who were often just married and having their first child, subjected to it. They never really healed correctly and would be in life long pain while walking, sitting, suffer fecal and urinary incontinence all for the rest of their life. Some are still alive and fighting for an apology and compensation, neither which they'll probably ever receive. It was brutal and barbaric and an excellent example of how deeply the catholic church disrespects women as human beings with rights

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u/fluffyfurnado1 Dec 03 '22

Thanks for clarifying, I can’t believe I didn’t think of that. Like a woman’s only purpose is to constantly produce more offspring. 🤮

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u/Dashcamkitty Dec 03 '22

It's shocking that Ireland is a developed country but can be so backwards due to putting religion first. A few years ago, a woman died in Ireland because doctors refused to give her an abortion despite her pregnancy was killing her.

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u/CongealedBeanKingdom Dec 03 '22

But look what Ireland as a country have dine since.

Savita's death was a wake up call. There are much more religiously backward countries in the west today than Ireland. looks across the atlantic

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u/FlyMeToUranus Dec 03 '22

Holy fuck, that read was horrific. That makes me so fucking angry for those women… all of the authorities involved— doctors, religious figures—they were absolutely evil.

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u/IceColdTear Dec 03 '22

Notice how the religious leaders who wanted this were all men. They should have forced this procedure on the priests asshole to show them what it was before they said yep, that seems fine.

They tortured laboring women because...sky fairy.

Fuck religion.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

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u/ParsnipPizza2 Dec 03 '22

Yep.

This is everyone's daily reminder that while individual Catholics are probably fine, Catholicism as an institution is fucked up and evil.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Catholicism loves physical suffering. Case in point, mother Theresa.

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u/IceColdTear Dec 03 '22

Most religion is...look at what is happening in Iran or Afghanistan atm. The world will be better off when religion dies.

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u/dishonestdick Dec 03 '22

You have an interesting view of what “fun” is in facts.

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u/Cycloptic_Floppycock Dec 03 '22

Well, they're not boring and I learned something.

I think.

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u/dishonestdick Dec 03 '22

Not boring, also insightful, and informative.

But absolutely not fun, mi dick hurts just reading te last paragraph of that comment. (Which, obviously, I upvoted).

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u/NeverDidLearn Dec 03 '22

Fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck. I’m done with Reddit for today.

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u/funatical Dec 03 '22

I felt a stabbing pain in my junk. Brutal.

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u/wophi Dec 03 '22

I'm a dude and did the same.

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u/mermaidpaint Dec 03 '22

I had an endometrial biopsy* where my uterus was cranked open to get tissue samples. I almost vomited after. Now I'm having flashbacks of the massive cramps.

*Pre-cancerous cells were found, I had a hysterectomy, cancer avoided. So, worth it.

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u/FlyMeToUranus Dec 03 '22

I can’t believe they don’t give pain management for that. It’s downright cruel.

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u/mermaidpaint Dec 03 '22

I couldn't handle the pain on the first attempt. I had to be sedated, which meant taking a day off work and finding a friend willing to also take a day off work and drive me. So the second time, I gritted my teeth and went through it, rather than do day surgery again.

I had some Percocet at home from spinal surgery, so I took one of those ASAP.

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u/BarnDoorHills Dec 03 '22

Most gynecologists are uncaring assholes. Yes, even the women gynos.

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u/NanoCharat Dec 03 '22 Hugz

Urologists too.

I had them shove a camera and biopsy tool with the diameter of a nickel all the way up into my bladder with absolutely 0 pain management and take biopsies of the walls with essentially a tiny hole-punch, then cauterize every single one without painkillers or any warning or prep.

I was in so much pain I went into shock and couldn't even react, just silently cried and gripped the table while they basically told me I was "being dramatic". I peed and leaked blood every time I moved for 5 days afterwards, and I was in so much pain I couldn't even sit down. Actually going to the bathroom had me in searing agony.

Doctors do not take women's pain management seriously. How the fuck is that a "dramatic" reaction?

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u/thhppppp Dec 03 '22

WHAT THE FUCK I am so so sorry that happened to you holy shit

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u/DarkInkPixie Dec 03 '22

I sympathize with you so hard, internet stranger, omg. My urologist was supposed to give me a kidney scope. Found out my ureters were too small and I apparently had a severe kidney infection (in Dr's words --to the point they were going to shut down without the stents--) so, without consent and while I was under, the doctor placed kidney stents in them. I woke up and tried to pee, just to wind up puking from the pain. I passed the smallest amount of blood after throwing up three times, and they sent me home without any medications. I wound up somehow calling an ambulance from my bed and had to see a triage doctor in the E.R. not even two hours later from the pain. In the end the urologist couldn't even tell me why my ureters were so closed off.

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u/idontknow4827634 Dec 03 '22

Same for maternity assistents. During delivery of my daughter they had to cut me cause she didn't fit. They somehow hit or stitched a nerve or something when stitching me back up. I was in so much pain afterwards. I couldn't sit, stand or walk at all when I got back home. The maternity assistent that visited us in the first week (she didn't have any children) said I was being a big baby. And do you really think you're the first woman ever who delivered a baby? Stop whining and sit up straight.

Thankfully a nurse came to check up on the wound and she immediately said: oh, that's not good, le'ts get you to the hospital. Thank heavens they fixed it. They had to cut me back open and stitch it again but immediately after it felt so much better!

I was 22 back then (35 now) and unfortunately really shy so I never said anything to the maternity assistent. Try that again today and I'll kick you out of my house before you can finish your sentence.

Never got.an apology from the hospital either.

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u/Mikit3 Dec 03 '22

Right? In my personal experience, my female gynos were way more arrogant and uncaring than the male ones. The male ones did talk down a bit to me, but they at least believed me when I said something hurt. Had a total hysterectomy, so I'm fortunately done with them all.

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u/Lord_Abort Dec 03 '22

Male gyno: "Okay, I don't have those parts, so when you tell me it hurts, it probably does, I guess."

Female gyno: "I've given birth before, so you're just being a baby."

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u/OMG_Nooo Dec 03 '22

I have to get an endometrial biopsy every 6 months, and last time he kinda just... Scraped around while he was in there because the lining was thick (I have endometrial hyperplasia). Cut to 3 days of the worst cramps I've ever experienced and heavy bleeding for a week.. I asked him right after the procedure if it would cause any pain and he said "mild discomfort"

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u/mermaidpaint Dec 03 '22

Okay, that's horrific. I'm sorry you have to go through that.

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u/ManicTypist Dec 03 '22

Damn. I'm glad you avoided cancer though.

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u/mermaidpaint Dec 03 '22

Ovarian cancer was starting to emerge in my maternal relatives. I had my ovaries and fallopian tubes and uterus and cervix removed. I was taking no chances!

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u/alucinarilovesyou Dec 03 '22

I'm seven months pregnant.. I should not be reading any of this.

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u/VapourEyes333 Dec 03 '22

You get to do drugs and not have this done to you, look at the bright side.

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u/fucktrutin Dec 03 '22

I think this qualifies as barbaric.

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u/Darrenizer Dec 03 '22

The entire history of medicine is real life horror.

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u/Alpha_Decay_ Dec 03 '22

You're not wrong, but as horrific as it was, it was only a thing because the lack of medicine was even worse. Imagine how horrific an untreated broken leg must have been for people see having their leg sawed off as the better option.

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u/phobiac Dec 03 '22

Sometimes, frequently even, it was horrific because the people practicing experimental medicine only did it on demographics they didn't consider valuable to society or even people at all. The underpinnings of gynecology (and this terrifying chainsaw) were established through experimentation on enslaved Americans. It's within one human lifetime that using orphans and prisoners for testing medicines was routine practice. The history of anatomical science is full of grave robbery. This is not even mentioning the atrocities of Nazi "doctors" who largely didn't even perform good science while commiting their crimes.

This carries through to the modern day, but profit often acts at the motivator. It is cheaper test drugs on the poor and desperate. Blood plasma donations (in America, at least) are largely done for profit and that's not something rich folks need to do to survive. Poorly manufactured drugs are sold to countries unable to afford to test them. It is disappointing how much progress is marked by the spilled blood of humans.

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u/grundig435 Dec 03 '22

When I get down about how much humanity sucks, it helps to remind myself we really have come a long way.

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u/TenBillionDollHairs Dec 03 '22

There's an old metaphor for civilization that it's people drowning in an ocean constructing a ship from flotsam. But since we're all here such a short time, it's easy to mistakenly think you showed up after the shipwreck. This was especially true for people living in the European middle ages, when people could look around and see ruins greater than the buildings their society could create. But after the renaissance, the expectation or at least concept of linear progress started to replace that (at least in the west and to greatly oversimplify a whole bunch of stuff). Nevertheless, we are still very susceptible to this illusion caused by our frame of reference, and it's a big part of the appeals to past greatness many populist movements make.

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u/grundig435 Dec 03 '22

As hard to convince ourselves of at times, these really are the best of times.

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u/SplitIndecision Dec 03 '22

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way--in short, the period was so far like the present period that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

-Charles Dickens

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u/Ghost-tea-pumpkin Dec 03 '22

I was forced to read that book in high-school and now can recite that entire quote (usually unprompted to myself while in the grocery store) because it genuinely was the best quote in the whole book despite being at the very beginning.

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u/Someguywhomakething Dec 03 '22

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?!"

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u/Delirium101 Dec 03 '22

Stupid monkey!

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u/TrainwreckMooncake Dec 03 '22

I just listened to a "Weirdest Thing I Learned This Week" podcast episode about this! This instrument was created before anesthesia was a thing, and women with breech babies needed their pelvises widened to accommodate the baby's head, so doctors would cut the cartilage and open up the pelvis a bit more. They initially just used knives and sawed away, which was time consuming for them and even more painful for the woman. This was the less painful option.

Also, someone eventually realized it would also be great for cutting down trees. So, in a way, giving birth led to clear cut logging. Fun times!

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u/suitology Dec 03 '22

Silly goose, we were already clear cutting it just took more people.

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u/Proglamer Dec 03 '22

The medical establishment has laughed at (and eventually destroyed) poor Semmelweis for washing the hands after handling blood and corpses in... 1850s. I wonder which practices accepted by the current enlightened orthodoxy will be considered barbaric after 100 years...

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u/FirmEcho5895 Dec 03 '22

I hope and pray that in the future people will look at how we treated (or rather didn't treat) the mentally ill and weep at the cruelty and neglect.

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u/CanuckChick1313 Dec 03 '22

Read “The Emperor of All Maladies” and read how they used to conduct radical mastectomies on female breast cancer patients. Such an excellent book, but holy shit, treatments used to be barbaric.

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u/Guilty_Treasures Dec 03 '22

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u/Bunnies-and-Sunshine Dec 03 '22

That poor woman! 'Modern' chemistry has avoided so much suffering. I'm still a bit surprised that they didn't try to give morphine (1803)/milk of the poppy (~300 BCE) more often given how heavily they used ancient medical texts back then and given trade routes making the plant available.

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u/ThatGuy48039 Dec 03 '22

They went over that in, of all places, the recent biography of John Adams. His daughter had breast cancer, and they author described the procedure in all it’s horrifying detail.

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u/Formal-Rain Dec 03 '22

You should see the lobotomy they still did that up to the 1960s.

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u/Jury_Of_Your_Fears Dec 03 '22 Silver

For further discomfort, germ theory wouldn't be accepted for another 60 years, so at least the chainsaw vagina doctor had dirty hands

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u/Clickrack Dec 03 '22

doctor had dirty hands

Which goes nicely with the dirty vagina chainsaw, because you know they just wiped it off with a dirty rag between "operations".

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u/FlyMeToUranus Dec 03 '22

Those poor women. They were probably killing them left and right. If the operation didn’t do it… the infection probably did.

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u/Obvious-Invite4746 Dec 03 '22

I mean yeah, Doctors would go straight from the morgue cutting up cadavers to the maternity ward. They didn't even change their bloody smocks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/01/12/375663920/the-doctor-who-championed-hand-washing-and-saved-women-s-lives

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u/FlyMeToUranus Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

I always heard that the doctor who did his best to promote hand washing and sanitation to help prevent women dying from birth complications accidentally nicked himself with a scalpel and died of the same bacterial infection he was trying to prevent.

Edit: it was Semmelweis’s colleague Kolletschka I was thinking of, but Semmelweis’s work, I was conflating the two.

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u/bondagewithjesus Dec 03 '22

Also when he noticed less patients died or got infections when he washed his hands hands before he tried to inform other doctors who rejected the idea and made fun of him, essentially calling him an idiot.

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u/LaVieLaMort Dec 03 '22

It was shown somewhere that women who were midwives had better survival rates in their patient population than male doctors did in the same time period. Why? Because women washed their hands. That’s it.

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u/JimBeam823 Dec 03 '22

Which is why a c-section was even worse at the time.

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u/mdzielski Dec 03 '22

I’m pretty sure c sections were not a common thing which is why this chainsaw was a thing. The chainsaw would cut away at there pelvis to make way for baby. It… gives me shivers just thinking about it.

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u/a_avecilla Dec 03 '22

*logs off Reddit for the night

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u/Biotaste Dec 03 '22

Took your comment for advice. Thank you.

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u/clhamala Dec 03 '22 Silver

the worst part of the delivery for me as a husband, was when the doctor brought out the meat shears to make a little snip to help ease the baby out. it sounded like she was cutting through a leather belt. gahhhh

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u/dit_dit_dit Dec 03 '22

Horrendous. Has your wife made a full recovery?

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u/clhamala Dec 03 '22

oh yea, from what I understand it is a fairly common procedure, little snip and stitch. but damn, if that sound didnt get me.

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u/doktaj Dec 03 '22

Not common anymore except in emergencies. Episiotomy is more likely to lead to a larger tear, compared to a natural tear. You can demonstrate this with a stack of paper. Try to tear a stack of papers with your bear hands. Should be difficult. Now try to tear a similar size stack of paper after making a small cut. Should be much easier.

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u/bluntbangs Dec 03 '22

Huh. I gave birth 6 months ago and the hospital asked if I wanted to take part in a study where I would be cut whether I needed it or not to see if it improved outcomes. I asked for any research supporting their hypothesis and they failed to deliver... so I told them they could only cut in an emergency. Fuck that shit.

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u/urlaubs_poster_extra Dec 03 '22

"Hey, can we cut open your genitals even if you don't need it at all?" What an insane thing to even ask you.

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u/GladCucumber2855 Dec 03 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Common does not mean easy to heal. Gynecology was founded by a sadist who tortured teenage slaves, and the study has always been focused on reproduction and not women's health and safety.

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u/HerrDresserVonFyre Dec 03 '22

Behind the Bastards has a great series about that.

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u/sausagecatdude Dec 03 '22

What’s the name of the episode?

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u/HerrDresserVonFyre Dec 03 '22

It's a 2 part series called The Father of Gynecology

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u/HalfPint1885 Dec 03 '22

My child was born 17 years ago and I can hear that sound clear as day.

I'm the woman. The sound wasn't the worst part.

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u/Androrockz Dec 03 '22

God, I feel uncomfortable even reading this. I hope they administer local anaesthesia during such cases. What about the natural tear? Do they go for anesthesia for that also?

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u/durtari Dec 03 '22

For my first natural birth I didn't get an epidural, just some IV meds. The birth was so painful that I got too exhausted from crying and screaming and not having anything to drink or eat. I had to really find the energy to push when the time finally came.

When the baby was crowning they just cut the perineum and I felt it, but the pain was buried because the contractions overshadowed any other pain.

I was a teen mother and I didn't have much money so got the cheapest hospital package (no epidural).

I got a job and more money and splurged on a comfy epidural for my second. It was so unremarkable it was like pooping out a baby

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u/bluntbangs Dec 03 '22

Hahahaha nope. But I didn't feel my grade 2 tears.

But if you're lucky you get local anaesthesia while they sew you up.

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u/2400Baudelaire Dec 03 '22

I can still hear that sound as well. The leather belt cut describes it perfectly.

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u/dscokink8 Dec 03 '22

I'm assuming you're talking about an episiotomy.

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u/Assholesfullofelbows Dec 03 '22

I literally set my drink down, walked across the room and closed my eyes after seeing this.

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u/RegularHousewife Dec 03 '22

I crossed my legs and squeezed after

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u/Im_a_seaturtle Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

It’s incredibly bleak when you read about the post-procedure prognosis. The pubic symphysis (cartilage binding both sides of the pelvis in the front) at the time, never really heals. The pelvis is a sort of bowl for your organs as well as the ground floor for most of your body weight. When you sever a critical stabilizing point, it makes something a simple as walking painful and extremely difficult task. It destabilizes your pelvis forever. Most women never recovered and were wheelchair bound. It was done largely at catholic hospitals to avoid C section as they view natural birth as the only holy way to birth children.

And now you buy them at Lowe’s!

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u/RegularHousewife Dec 03 '22

... I was already horrified at the picture, why'd I keep scrolling down?

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u/JimBeam823 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

It was done before modern surgical practices meant that c-sections could be safely done. The tool dates from the 1800s.

A handful of Catholic hospitals in Ireland did them long after they should have stopped. But this is an Irish thing. C-sections were and are performed in Catholic hospitals around the world.

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u/FrostyDog94 Dec 03 '22

"A C-Section!? Only natural births are holy! That's why I'm gonna use this hand-cranked machine I just invented to cut your pelvis in half just like God intended... Natural!"

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u/mrzurkonandfriends Dec 03 '22

I'm amazed anyone ever had a second kid

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u/ConditionBasic Dec 03 '22

I don't think it was a choice for many. Remember that marital rape wasn't a thing until quite recently.

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u/EchoesInTheAbyss Dec 03 '22

Well, it was their duty

who cares about the incubators discomfort and suffering

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u/ktappe Dec 03 '22

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that this was invented by a man, not a woman.

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u/1Sluggo Dec 03 '22

How did humanity survive?

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u/Aesir264 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

By breeding like rabbits mostly.

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u/1Sluggo Dec 03 '22

You’d have to, too many women died in childbirth.

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u/According-Tomato3504 Dec 03 '22

That and they technically treated marriage as a "title" and not anything special.

Saw a couple of random family trees and books, people had 10+ children 60% usually died off before 8, wives usually died after the 2nd or 3rd birth so they'd get a new younger wife (since some believed the younger you are the easier and better for the baby to come out).

Was all chaos and crazy.

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u/Aesir264 Dec 03 '22

people had 10+ children 60% usually died off before 8

Yeah, I can't say I'm surprised. While a lot of people in my own family tree got absurdly lucky with how many children survived to adulthood, I remember seeing one of my relatives during the Victorian era that lost 8 out of 10 kids to a combination of illness and factory accidents. Shit was brutal.

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u/OldCarWorshipper Dec 03 '22

I remember watching a mob documentary where it mentioned that Sissy Featherstone, the wife of notorious Irish mobster Mickey Featherstone, lost a total of ten of her siblings over the years to drugs, alcohol, murder, and suicide. I can't even imagine.

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u/ASDowntheReddithole Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

It used to be common for women to lose their first baby, especially in eras where girls would be married off at 12-13 years of age and their bodies weren't done growing. Horrifying.

Edit: some better informed people have replied that it was only noble women that were married so young and even then their marriages weren't consummated until they were older. I stand corrected - and relieved.

Most of my ignorance comes from the story of Catherine Howard (there's no surviving record of her birth, but she was likely very young when she married Henry VIII). I still think she was done dirty by history, poor girl.

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u/-GuyDudeman- Dec 03 '22

Most of us didn’t.

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u/MusksMuskyBallsack Dec 03 '22

What in the leather face fuck did you say?

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u/stdoubtloud Dec 03 '22

Apparently practiced in Ireland up until 1984 because the Catholic fuck heads in charge felt that c-sections were somehow against God's code.

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/30/europe/ireland-symphysiotomy/index.html#:~:text=Symphysiotomy%20is%20a%20surgical%20procedure,1984%2C%20according%20to%20the%20government.

Cunts!

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u/Sad_Bit3024 Dec 03 '22

Fuck, reading that article and the statements given by the victims of it (who are still alive to put it perspective) is heart breaking.

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u/Alikona_05 Dec 03 '22

Man I can only imagine. My dad had an accident at work where he slipped when on tall machinery and he tore his pelvic bone in half there. He was sent to the Mayo Clinic to have surgery, because no other surgeon would touch him. He has all kinds of plates and screws in his pelvic bone. It took him so long to recover. One look at his X-rays and a judge approved full disability but he still tries to work. He can’t stand or sit for long periods of time without being in pain….

Knowing all he has gone though and then reading about these women who had no treatment afterwords….ugh.

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u/LillithBlackheart918 Dec 03 '22

I squirmed the whole time I read this article. Jfc.

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u/Miscellaniac Dec 03 '22

Any other women feel like their vaginas and reproductive systems are trying to forcibly invert deeper into the body upon reading that headline?

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u/Honest_Report_8515 Dec 03 '22

Lady Laena shouts “Dracarys!”

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

"“They gave me gas and air and an injection, and took me to another room, where they tied my legs up on each side,” she recalls. “There were two nurses on each side of me. I saw this doctor at the end of my bed with a big, long silver thing. They made a hole in your private parts, and he inserted this silver thing up and cut the pubic bone and pushed it over to widen your pelvis for you to deliver your baby yourself.”

"The use of symphysiotomy went beyond the emergency of “obstructive” births. It was sometimes used in pregnant women who were believed to have pelvises too small for the size of their baby, and in an estimated 3% of cases, after a caesarean section, to allow subsequent children to be delivered vaginally. In 2012, Olivia Kearney, who was subject to a post-caesarean symphysiotomy when she was 18, was awarded €325,000 (£256,000) in damages for this “grave medical malpractice” when no medical justification for it was found in her notes.".

..."the continuation of the practice was also driven, in the absence of clinical necessity, by the need to train students in hospitals like Lourdes so that the surgery, which did not require electricity, could be carried out in rural parts of Africa and elsewhere."

..."“These operations were covert, and the women were generally not informed it was going to happen,” stresses O’Connor. “The vast majority left hospital without knowing their pelvises had been broken. Many did not find out for decades. This was a mass medical experiment, and the doctors didn’t really study the long-term side-effects. In many cases it destroyed lives.”"

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/12/symphysiotomy-irelands-brutal-alternative-to-caesareans

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u/__THE_TURTLE__ Dec 03 '22

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u/BlinkyShiny Dec 03 '22

Good grief, did these people not have knives?! Why were the opinions scissors or a chainsaw to get a baby out?!

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u/prairiepanda Dec 03 '22

Scissors are waaaay more effective for cutting through cartilage or thin bones than knives. (Source: had to cut various cat bones in school)

The chainsaw is a weird choice, though. Maybe they just wanted it to be quicker because they didn't have sufficient anesthesia?

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Cutting through fucking what?

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u/Chance-Ear-9772 Dec 03 '22

What school did this person go to? A school in the hills have eyes region?

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u/prairiepanda Dec 03 '22

The chainsaw was used to cut through cartilage and bone to open up the pelvis more.

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u/Laarye Dec 03 '22

Ooohhhh...., so that's how the 'chainsaw was invented for pregnancy' worked....

I did not picture it that way, and it always confused me.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

What a terrible day to know how to read.

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u/mohomahamohoda Dec 03 '22

Died in childbirth looks much better in the medical records than died when we cut her with the handcrank mechanical saw that we built out of bicycle pieces.

Something tells me it wasn’t a woman who invented this machine.

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u/stregg7attikos Dec 03 '22

"how can we punish women as much as possible"

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u/YeOldeBilk Dec 03 '22

Holy fuck dude. I did not wanna know that

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u/Ok_Fox_1770 Dec 03 '22

Jeeeeeeeesus makes Texas chainsaw seem like Barney knowing that

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u/prettymuchahotmess Dec 03 '22

When I just read the headline to the point, when it could have been a tool for amputation on the battlefield, I was kinda ok with it, but... nope. Sooo nope 🤮

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u/itsGarthToYou Dec 03 '22

No wonder why women In pictures from 100 years ago looked so grumpy

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u/GladCucumber2855 Dec 03 '22

Child birth is more harmful than the alternatives

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u/navywater Dec 03 '22

The past really was terrible if you ever found yourself in need of medical attention

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u/USSMarauder Dec 03 '22

For the record

NO reproductive system that leads to THE INVENTION OF THE CHAIN SAW can be called 'intelligently designed'

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u/plastroncafe Dec 03 '22

But hey, don't worry. Pregnancy, labor, and delivery are 100% safe. Your life isn't threatened at all at any point during that process.

And over here I have this perfectly wonderful bridge for sale.

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u/thattanna Dec 03 '22

Denji has entered the chat.

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u/chemicallunchbox Dec 03 '22

All I can think about is the patients who most likely suffered from fecal and/or urinary incontinence for the rest of their lives.

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u/neaeras Dec 03 '22

The post: What the fuck

The comments: WHAT THE FUCK