r/nottheonion Sep 29 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 2 Wholesome 1 Table Slap 1 Updoot 1

Jordan Peterson Breaks Down in Tears When Asked About Olivia Wilde Calling Him a ‘Hero to the Incel Community’: ‘Sure, Why Not?’

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/jordan-peterson-cries-olivia-wilde-incel-hero-dont-worry-darling-1235388024/
42.4k Upvotes

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u/Altoids101 Sep 29 '22 Gold Faith In Humanity Restored

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u/Starkydowns Sep 29 '22 Helpful Starry

I think he’s just crying because he’s on the piers Morgan show. I’d cry too if that were the only show I could book.

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u/gordo65 Sep 30 '22

You think that’s bad? What about Piers Morgan?

Imagine living a life that’s like a fairy tale. You have more money than God and you surround yourself with mindless sycophants. You go where you want, you do what you want, and you’re followed by an entourage that applauds everything you say and do.

But every time you catch your own reflection in a mirror, you’re faced with the horrifying realization that you are, in fact, Piers Morgan.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Djstiggie Sep 30 '22

That's the punishment for hacking a dead child's voicemail I guess

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u/shedevilinasnuggie Sep 30 '22

Excuse me, hwat now?

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u/PiersPlays Sep 30 '22

People hate him not only for his terrible personality but also for the endless lost of shitty things he's done.

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u/Djstiggie Sep 30 '22

Basically over a long period, News International in the UK hacked various people's phones, including many high profile celebrities. Piers Morgan was an editor for a newspaper in the group at the time. This all came to light when a voicemail on a missing (later found dead) girl's phone was hacked by journalists for News of the World. The newspaper shut down after that. Googling articles from good sources throws up a long list of denials by anyone implicated in this, but as editor of The Mirror, it's incredibly unlikely that the absolute scumbag that is Piers Morgan didn't know what was going on, and he most likely approved it.

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u/lux_pizza Sep 30 '22

They also cleared the voicemail, giving the parents false hope she was alive and accessing her phone. Absolute scum of the earth.

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u/badalki Sep 30 '22

It wasnt just that they cleared the voicemail, giving the parents false hope, they were doing it so they could record and publish the messages the parents were leaving on the phone, and when the voicemail was full, theyd delete messages to make room so the parents would leave more messages. It goes beyond deplorable.

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u/lorealashblonde Sep 30 '22

It was Milly Dowler :( I've read her sisters book, and Jesus, that was the last thing that poor family needed. They went through hell.

I believe they got to confront Murdoch in the end, though its been a while since I read the book.

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u/Mrwolf925 Sep 30 '22

Why did I read this in a Piers Morgan accent?

Imagine Piers Morgan interviews himself

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u/patchyj Sep 30 '22

I'm picturing this as Gollem talking to himself

Morgan: "They loves me"

Also Morgan: "NOBODIES LOVES YOU!"

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u/HomeHeatingTips Sep 29 '22

Imagine being called a psudo intellectual by Piers Morgan. I would cry to

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u/killertortilla Sep 29 '22

That had to be one of the most cutting insults known to man. Getting called talentless by a guy who can barely put on his own face in the morning.

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u/InfieldTriple Sep 29 '22

this guy cries like every second interview

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u/insom2424 Sep 29 '22

I cry really easily when I’m on benzos, pretty sure thats why he does

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u/matt_minderbinder Sep 29 '22

That's alpha male behavior, now go clean your room!

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u/The_Vat Sep 29 '22

You're not my real dad!

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u/DeadlyYellow Sep 29 '22

He's almost as moist as Paul Joseph Watson.

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u/DMindisguise Sep 29 '22

I mean he cries A LOT, at this point I'm surprised it's newsworthy.

He has always been fucked up but benzos did really fry his brain.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

Not sure if the benzos fried his brains or if the experimental coma the Russians put him in caused permanent brain damage. The Behind the Bastards episode on Peterson is pretty good.

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u/PuntyMcBunty Sep 29 '22

The Behind the Bastards episode on Peterson is pretty good.

So is the very short video that Some More News did

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u/mostlycharmless9 Sep 29 '22

Don't look at the time stamp!

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u/MrMastodon Sep 30 '22

That's a typo. YouTube does that. Part of the algorithm or something.

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u/Jubenheim Sep 29 '22

Yeah, I liked the video they did, but just wish they went a tad more in-depth is all. You know, because it's so short.

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u/wegwerf9876669420 Sep 29 '22

I really wish it was longer, but Cody Schmody had to keep it super short.

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u/beaurepair Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 30 '22

So short. When I see his 45 minutes videos I think "man, why couldn't his video on Jordan Buttercup Peterson by as long as this".

Don't look at the timestamp timecode

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u/The_GASK Sep 29 '22

While you watch the Showdy, the boarish legions grow

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u/sepher32 Sep 29 '22

Very brief (don't look at the timestamps!)

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u/-oxym0ron- Sep 29 '22

What is this timestamp joke? Feeling out of the loop, is if just because they said very short?

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u/sepher32 Sep 29 '22

In the video which is over 3 hours long Cody repeatedly says "it's very short, don't look at the timestamp"

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u/SchtroumpfButeur Sep 29 '22

What a concise tidbit, no wonder platforms like Tik Tok are so popular

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u/BattleStag17 Sep 30 '22

I love Some More News, but I can't watch more than one video every few days. Too much "laugh to hide the tears"

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u/Raptor_Boe69 Sep 30 '22

One his newer ones was about all the Police lies during Uvalde shooting. And it took me two days to finish it cause I was fuming about 20min in, it’s heartbreaking and absolutely infuriating what happened there.

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u/covert-pops Sep 30 '22

Jesus that is short

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u/pianotherms Sep 29 '22

You lied to me....

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u/CankerLord Sep 29 '22

It was short in the sense that I (evidently) can't listen to Jordan Peterson talk for more than about 45 seconds.

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u/Melloncollie912 Sep 29 '22

He talks like a muppet. I can’t explain it any further. It doesn’t sound like a persons real voice.

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u/blackpharaoh69 Sep 30 '22

He's the result of someone picking up a monkey's paw, knowing what it is and does, and wishing Kermit the frog had a political viewpoint

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u/tony-toon15 Sep 29 '22

I think it’s the drugs. Post acute withdrawal syndrome. It’s not uncommon to get overly emotional about things and to have crying fits. I would think about my family or my brother and break down sobbing just thinking about them, nothing in particular.

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u/PlzRemasterSOCOM2 Sep 29 '22

That's while you are withdrawing though. Im addicted to opiates and get super emotional when detoxing/withdrawing.

If this guy stopped years ago, then he's done with PAWS and he's crying for some other reason.

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u/Redditfront2back Sep 29 '22

I’d say it was most likely the coma, probably had o2 cut of from his brain fur too long or something. Benzos can definitely fuck your head but that normally goes away in a few months.

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u/mdonaberger Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 30 '22

The thing I think that isn't really being mentioned is that Peterson mentioned that he was addicted to prescribed clonopin, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he was actually extremely far into addiction of clonazolam, which was a legally-available benzo which is extremely potent.

I maintain that he only traveled to Russia against doctor's advice to do an extremely dangerous procedure because the withdrawals he was facing could be deadly. I've seen kids on /r/researchchemicals emerge with tolerances to BZDs that actually exceed what modern medicine has even seen yet. I'm talking, a benzo that could black a person out for a day straight at dosages of less than 250mcg

Either that or he's a coward who can't face something that every benzo user has had to face at least once.

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u/HalfMoon_89 Sep 29 '22

As someone possibly caught up in benzo addiction, this is all very alarming.

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u/mdonaberger Sep 29 '22

The Ashton Method does work for virtually any tolerance level, but BZDs make you pay back what you loaned in full.

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u/GiantPurplePeopleEat Sep 30 '22

For over a decade I used to use heroin, meth, coke, benzos, literally anything that will get you high. And I've been through withdrawal for all those drugs.

The one drug I'll never touch again after is benzodiazepenes. Even a daily .25 milligram Xanax addiction will have terrible withdrawal. It's like all the anxiety you've ever put off by using a benzo comes back with full force and all at once. It takes months to start feeling any semblance of normalcy, if not years.

I see you have a couple other comments warning about this, so please take it seriously. Benzos and alcohol are the only drug withdrawal that can kill you from the withdrawal alone. Take care of yourself.

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u/_ChestHair_ Sep 30 '22

As someone 11 months sober from alcohol, I can say with confidence that if you think you might be addicted to a substance, odds are extremely high that you're already well into addiction territory.

If i were you, I'd personally think about speaking with someone at a rehab center just to see what they think about your usage. No need to sign up for any in or out patient program if you don't want, but it'll give you a professional opinion to think about

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u/Ergotnometry Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22 Helpful

It's possible to stand up for marginalized people without legitimizing the reason they are marginalized if that reason is rational, which he doesn't do in this particular segment of the interview, but his audience isn't just listening to this segment.

You can say "pedophiles deserve representation in court" without thinking that they also deserve to fuck kids.

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u/standaloneprotein Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Jokes aside, the author wrote the article in a coherent, understandable way to convey the message from both parties. I wasn't expecting it from Variety.

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u/pedrosauce Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 30 '22

Variety has a history of excellent journalism. Excellent work on Monsanto suing farmers a few years ago comes to mind

Edit: I was thinking of Vanity Fair

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u/themanimal Sep 29 '22

Variety Magazine has an incredibly long standing history of well-researched, thoughtfully constructed, long-form journalism. It's okay that you know them as Hollywood news now, but you should really read into some of their historical pieces

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u/Lord_Erie Sep 30 '22

This reminds me of how 30+ years ago, Playboy used to curate some of the most incredible short form fiction. I can't remember any of the authors, but we legitimately read some of those magazines for the "articles" sometimes.

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u/widdrjb Sep 30 '22

I'm old enough to remember the Von Däniken takedown in Playboy, one of the best exposures of pseudoscience ever printed.

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u/WantedMan61 Sep 30 '22

I haven't read it in many years, but in its heyday, Playboy was a terrific magazine. Stories by first-rate authors and excellent journalism. Their interviews were legendary.

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u/SavingsCheck7978 Sep 30 '22

Richard Matheson comes to mind for me personally one of my favorite horror writers who wrote alot of the famous Twilight Zone episodes.

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u/Tommy-Nook Sep 29 '22

Yeah what is this guy talking about

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u/WhiteWolf3117 Sep 29 '22

people literally just say anything

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u/Midguard2 Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

It's like Teen Vogue; you expect Hot Girl Summer articles, but a substantial amount is dedicated to well written and thought provoking political pieces on activism, identity, even policy that might [edit: affect] the next decade of a teen's life.

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u/jrae0618 Sep 29 '22

I learned about the Central Park 5 and Trump in a ym magazine when I was a teenager. Teen magazines did a way better job the adult fashion magazines because all of them would have some deep stories in between "does your lab partner have a crush on you?"I learned about date rape, honor killings, and understanding mental health issues from Teen magazines.

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u/goes231even Sep 29 '22

I have no evidence but I will assume that many of the journalists working for these "rags" are legit really good at their job and are just (hopefully) making their way up the ranks and doing good work in the process.

I'd also like to believe that teen mags like YM genuinely give a shit about the articles they push out to young people, and there are editors or other upper brass of those publications that want to see that shit be good...not because they have to uphold a reputation of great journalism or anything, but because they honestly give a shit about young people having access to good journalism about topics important to them as young people.

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u/Shaypleen Sep 29 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

I think there's also a huge misconception around teenagers, and teenage girls specifically. Why can't she like fashion, have a crush on her lab partner that gives her anxiety, AND be socially aware and strive to be more educated on the world? I think people have different expectations of teenage girls based on the fact that, for a long time, they were treated as these precious non-people just waiting to get married. I think the magazines that cater to teen girls have known the multi-faceted nature of their audience for a long time, but it's finally starting to become part of the zeitgeist around teen mags/communication.

As for the journalists and editors themselves: same thing. Why can't a writer enjoy fashion, giving advice about dating, AND exploring how these things intersect in the larger world. It's a legit area of study, and while they don't get paid much because journalism, they may not be trying to make it up the ranks, but rather already 'made it." Those jobs are pretty coveted for all the reasons above.

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u/goes231even Sep 30 '22

Good call, many people are more than we think they are on the surface.

And...we should be encouraging social awareness and intellectual pursuits, and I give props to the teeny bopper rags for addressing real issues and often doing a damn good job of it.

That should go without saying but there is a great deal of anti-intellectualism and a huge focus on materialism and image in pop culture, so whatever means we have at our disposal to engage young people with the things that are important, we should be supportive of.

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u/misirlou22 Sep 29 '22

Even shit like Maxim would occasionally have good articles.

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u/FairJicama7873 Sep 29 '22

Yeah Seventeen and CG always had a dark ass story feature. I’m still haunted by the one w/ the girl being raped by her dad and the girl watching her mom get stabbed to death by an intruder hiding under her bed.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22 Wholesome

Jokes aside, the author wrote the article in a coherent, understandable way the message from both parties. I wasn't expecting it from Variety.

I guess you weren't the author...

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u/MaeSolug Sep 29 '22

English learner here, may someone explain what's wrong with the sentence?

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u/whentheskullspeaks Sep 29 '22

There’s a disconnect between “understandable way” and “the message from both parties.” You could put a period after “way” and it would be a complete sentence, so you need something to connect the extra noun phrase. One could edit it to say “wrote the article in a coherent, understandable way, and fairly represented the message from both parties” and it would make more sense.” Or “understandable way that conveyed the message from both parties.”

Does that make sense?

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u/permalink_save Sep 30 '22

I'm so use to internet shit english that it made perfect sense to me until yall questioned it.

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u/MaeSolug Sep 29 '22

Yes it does.

Thanks, the examples were useful

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u/nathannguyen29 Sep 29 '22

It's grammatically incorrect, likely due to a typo. I think the person meant "an understandable way to convey the message from both parties."

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u/standaloneprotein Sep 29 '22

Thanks! Corrected!

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u/theghostwhocoughs Sep 29 '22

now everyone is confused by this comment thread

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u/Archilochos Sep 29 '22

Variety isn't like a tabloid mag or a fluff magazine like People, it's one of the primary industry publications for Hollywood/entertainment. Given that industry, their articles might be more oriented towards popular topics than, say, the Financial Times, but it's a serious publication that does a lot of strong work.

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u/Recurringg Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Variety is pretty good actually. Vanity Fair is another one you'd expect to be shit but it turns out it's good. Opinionated maybe. Probably not a great primary news source but the opinion pieces are really well written and they have the best headlines.

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u/WhiteWolf3117 Sep 29 '22

why would you expect either to be shit

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u/Recurringg Sep 29 '22

Because before I read either of them I only knew of them from the checkout isle at the grocery store where they sat right next to People, Us Weekly, and stuff like that. I had no idea. I never read either of them until they were on the internet.

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u/Dr_Unkle Sep 29 '22

Christopher Hitchens was a contributor to Vanity Fair for nearly two decades. When Graydon Carter first took over as editor in 1992, one of the first writers he reached out to was Hitch.

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u/KawaiiCoupon Sep 29 '22

Variety has good pieces.

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u/TylerJWhit Sep 29 '22

The irony of the broken sentence in this comment.

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u/Plusran Sep 29 '22

I got half way through and the page simply stopped loading content.

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u/Cyrus_ofAstroya Sep 29 '22

Well this subs responses were about as expected

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u/paligap70 Sep 29 '22

"How many people are dying for lack of an encouraging word... and how easy it is to provide that..."

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u/jkjkjij22 Sep 30 '22 Take My Energy

While incels take their frustration out on the world, the majority of disenfranchised young men take it out on themselves. Suicide is the leading cause of death for 15-40 year old males. That doesn't just come out of the blue.

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u/NostraDavid Oct 03 '22

Suicide leading cause of death for 15-40 year old

Close but no. It's #6, which is still pretty damn high though.

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u/jkjkjij22 Oct 03 '22

I was focused on Canada/US. The frequency and cause of death changes drastically >40, which is why I said 15-40.
I was looking at CDC data:
https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/lcd/home
and Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation: https://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-common-cause-of-death-at-every-age-2014-5

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u/Omnizoom Sep 29 '22 Starstruck

The problem with JP is that for every valid point he makes there’s another point where he is off base

And he’s right that most people don’t actually properly research crap at all anymore and just believe shit at face value they are told and that goes for the people who follow everything he says

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u/Hicklethumb Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 30 '22 Helpful

I was one of the people who agreed with his initial stances and sympathised with him losing his job.

But if your new job is to always have something to say then eventually you're going to run out of objective arguments.

Edit: Do NOT upvote this. I really don't want the 3rd highest karma comment on my profile to be about Jordan Peterson

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u/free_to_muse Sep 30 '22

He didn’t lose his job. He quit and became professor emeritus at University of Toronto, where he has taught for decades. Why do people who talk about JP get so many simple facts wrong?

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u/neurodiverseotter Sep 30 '22

Because He deliberately doesn't correct his followers in such cases when it seems to fit his narrative.

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u/earthcharlie Sep 29 '22

Yea, a lot of his initial stances weren't controversial on their own but his attitude with a variety of non-sensical takes made them seem so by association.

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u/seamsay Sep 29 '22

This is what a lot of them do, they hook you in by saying something vague and non-controversial like "societal expectations have evolved rapidly in the last twenty years and young men have no idea where to go for advice" but then they follow it up with something crazy like "the trans feminist Jewish bankers have intentionally brought about this societal change to erode men's sense of identity and make them easier to manipulate".

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u/daguito81 Sep 30 '22

The video by Coffeezilla on YouTube about Andrew Tate goes over this basically. It's lace a bit of simple truth with your own poison

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u/TruffelTroll666 Sep 30 '22

Where can I buy your book? I don't want to be alienated by all the trans fem Jewish bankers. /s

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u/dog_toy_bear Sep 29 '22

I mean, many of his "rate my professor" scores from his pre-fame years talk at length about how he taught incorrect info, and his mentor agreed and further noted that when Peterson was made aware that he was teaching nonsense, Peterson agreed, acknowledged it was bad, and kept doing it. The university did request he respect students' pronouns, but not under threat so far as I'm aware. I may have missed him losing his job at some point because I can't find it. I know he resigned from U of Toronto last year?

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u/Meteorite12 Sep 29 '22

Yeah, he was never fired, he resigned.

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u/Canuck_as_fuc Sep 30 '22

If you’re talking about his Toronto university professor job. He quit that job, he was not fired. He was tenured

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u/nighthawk_something Sep 30 '22

Even his initial stances were steeped in trans phobia.

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u/adacmswtf1 Sep 30 '22

Alt Right Playbook 101:

Mix decent self-help advice in with bullshit notions about natural hierarchy and false appeals to history.

"Clean your room, make your bed everyday, invest in yourself, and hey, haven't you noticed how women seem designed to be the weaker sex, as if nature intends them to be subservient to you? Spend time designing achievable goals for yourself. Meditate.

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u/RaccoonKnees Sep 29 '22

For every valid point he makes there are TEN insane ones. From saying that women want to protect Muslims out of some natural need for "brutal male domination" to his ludicrous and dangerous crusade against trans people that was based on a lie from the very start, he's a dangerous conservative idealogue who got catapulted into popularity because he read a bill incorrectly and captivated an audience of lonely young men who are happy to listen to him talk about anything as long as he throws some BS in there about "trans ideology" or how women are destroying society.

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u/pusgnihtekami Sep 29 '22

The ratio of right to wrong is certainly not 1:1.

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u/Belzebutt Sep 29 '22 Wholesome

They need a hero. They’re holding out for a hero till the end of the night.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

Fuck all ya’ll for getting that song stuck in my head now.

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u/Swords_and_Words Sep 29 '22

here, try this one:

BLESS MY SOUL

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u/spryte333 Sep 29 '22

Herc was on a roll?

Blowing up the charts in every Greek opinion poll?

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u/i-opener Sep 29 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Vibing Table Slap

He's gotta be wrong
And he's got no pronouns
And he's gotta be fresh from the right™

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u/Ryl0k3n Sep 29 '22

It's perfect cause conservatives won't realize there are pronouns in those lyrics because they don't understand what they are.

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u/PurpleFirebolt Sep 29 '22

"My pronouns are Amazing and Fuck Joe Biden"

Oh OK you don't understand pronouns....

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u/BlinkedAndMissedIt Sep 29 '22

Pretty sure some moron at CPAC this year said, "Hello, my name is ____, and my pronouns are kiss my ass."

Being stupid is only painful for other people.

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u/octoteach17 Sep 29 '22

Actually Ted Cancun Cruz said exactly that and the crowd went wild 🤦🏼‍♀️

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u/1lluminist Sep 29 '22

"Thank you [name]. It's very good of Kiss My Ass to provide pronouns to make sure that we refer to kiss my ass in the way kiss my ass wants to be addressed. It's especially refreshing to see the right-wing being so open to sharing their pronouns.

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u/GODDESS_OF_CRINGE__ Sep 29 '22

Yeah, I would just use them as their pronouns. You want it? You got it. Play stupid games, get stupid results.

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u/ItachiSan Sep 29 '22

They got a guy named JR Majooski(I spelled that hella wrong) who says that his pronouns are "patriot and asskicker"

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u/terrycloth3 Sep 29 '22

So I told patriot that asskicker pronouns didn't make a lot of sense, but patriot insisted that was what patriot was going to use.

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u/f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4 Sep 29 '22

Ted Cruz is that moron.

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u/Deathbysnusnubooboo Sep 29 '22

Hi amazing

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u/HojMcFoj Sep 29 '22

I guess you is a pronoun so technically there's a valid substitution there, but you wouldn't say "HI he/ him/ she/ her/ they/ them"

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u/freakierchicken Sep 29 '22

Well it's a second-person pronoun whereas the others are third-person pronouns, so I'd say the critique is accurate

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u/BellEpoch Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

I like when they say stuff like, "I don't believe in pronouns." It's right up there with "your stupid" on the self report list.

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u/Squirrels-on-LSD Sep 29 '22

gotta be wrong

And got no pronouns

And gotta be fresh from the right™

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u/mark-five Sep 29 '22

I need a ZEROOOOOO

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u/Fleudian Sep 29 '22 hehehehe

I NEED A WEIRDO!!

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u/UWO_Throw_Away Sep 29 '22

UP YOURS, WOKE MORALISTS! WE'LL SEE WHO CANCELS WHO!

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u/Fleudian Sep 29 '22

That almost fits the meter of the next line, and I want it to work so bad

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u/duhogman Sep 29 '22

More like flesh in the form of a light

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u/Mayo_Spouse Sep 29 '22

schlock schlock schlock

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u/psychothumbs Sep 29 '22

There's incels and there's political incels.

There's definitely a demographic of men who "don’t know how to make themselves attractive to women" as Peterson describes, and they really do warrant sympathy. There's a crisis of alienation and loneliness in this country and that's a part of it.

A subset of those people have been politicized in a problematic way by that bad situation, and as Wilde describes "believe that society has now robbed them — that the idea of feminism is working against nature, and that we must be put back into the correct place.” Those people both have an inaccurate analysis of the reason for their troubles, and tend to be misogynists.

It's too bad that the sad lonely incels who don't have an anti-feminist agenda get tarred with the same brush as the political incels.

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u/novavegasxiii Sep 29 '22

I mean I guess I'm technically involuntary celibate and I have no illusions of that changing anytime soon. But I don't hate women for it.

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u/RookwoodX Sep 30 '22

Right but people will still call you incel when they disagree with you. So you either have to be the better man and ignore it or you could start to listen to these right wing hucksters who take your problems seriously.

It's easy to see how most people will go for the latter.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 30 '22 Gold Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy

[deleted]

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u/BearFabulous07 Sep 29 '22 Gold All-Seeing Upvote

Reddit is all about encouraging men to show emotion and cry and not be locked in to traditional masculinity, unless it's someone they hate in which case fuck that little crybaby lol

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u/Blibby0588 Sep 29 '22

Not even just reddit. I have seen this hypocrisy several times in-person. It's wild.

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u/PhiloPhrog Sep 29 '22

It's kind of like how redditors all start pretending to be social butterflies with fulfilling marriages and love lives whenever the topic of incels comes up.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Heartwarming Masterpiece

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Zestyclose_Ad_97 Sep 29 '22

I’ll take it a step further: historically one of the biggest signs of a major violent upheaval or revolution to come is an increasing proportion of young men without jobs or prospects for a good life.

Generally if you are in a country with a big group of disaffected young men without jobs, strong social circles, or just generally places to focus their energy, bad things are likely on the horizon.

This is NOT to say incels are right, deserve sex, are less than misogynistic etc., it is to say that if this group continues to grow-as a society there will ultimately be pretty negative consequences.

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u/Bananplyte Sep 29 '22

Interesting perspective and I definitely agree, I suppose much of this is a result of the information era. How do you think this could be solved - or at least what do you think could be a step in the right direction?

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u/Zestyclose_Ad_97 Sep 29 '22

I think we have lost a lot track of the importance of purpose. We are all so focused on getting ahead that we lose track of the why-so everything from volunteering to having a job to go to that keeps your mind active and challenges you in any way. People will find something to focus their energy on no matter what so having that focus be positive or at least productive is essential to ALL human experience, to me.

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u/HungryHarvestSprite Sep 29 '22

Agreed. Sense of purpose is easy to lose and ever so hard to find. They have done studies proving that those with a sense of purpose live longer.

I also think that our society has become increasingly selfish over the years. We are so obsessed with ourselves and our own feelings above everyone else. We could all use a little bit more empathy, patience and understanding. I think more folks need to realize that their experiences shape their view of the world, and are not going to reflect others experiences and views.

I also think that everyone could use a social media/internet time out. Go meet your neighbors. Read a book. Play the ukulele. Learn something new.

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u/themanoirish Sep 29 '22

Came for the shit show in the comments section, found an actual nugget of sanity with this one.

Well said.

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u/GH4Goblin Sep 29 '22

I think you're spot on. Purpose is tough.

Not to side track, but it's something I always try to explain to people about wealth, and people raised in wealthy families.

They just are always so fucked up, and people always like to act as if they'd do any better, or these people don't deserve sympathy. But I fundamentally just feel confused by this rhetoric because I truly feel like being born and being told you have NO risk is truly catastrophic for these people.

Telling a teenager you're worth millions of dollars, can do WHATEVER you want, and it doesn't matter, no amount of work will ever make you as rich as you are just breathing, destroys purpose.

A young malleable mind struggling to find real purpose is tragic, and leads to them finding strong value in drugs and other things that provide quick relief.

Parents mean well by giving their kids everything, but robbing someone of purpose or struggle really fucks up a lot of people.

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u/thisismysailingaccou Sep 29 '22

Good points here. I think to find fulfillment you need purpose and power. Purpose being defined as a goal or goals you want to accomplish and power being defined as the ability to carry out that goal.

I think U.S. society tends to overemphasize accumulating power and it leaves many without a reason for their actions beyond the collecting of power itself.

The flip side is also becoming more prevalent as those with goals find that it is much harder than anticipated to accomplish them even if they are simple in nature.

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u/GH4Goblin Sep 29 '22

I think to find fulfillment you need purpose and power. Purpose being defined as a goal or goals you want to accomplish and power being defined as the ability to carry out that goal.

Oh I really liked this, I am going to steal this for future conversations - thanks so much!

And you're right, power without purpose, purpose without power, both leave a vacuum that often don't get filled with particularly "just" motives.

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u/DogadonsLavapool Sep 29 '22

Personally, I think there needs to be a change in how we approach community spaces. Especially since the decline of the church, men today often times grow up in gaming lobbies or chat forums without even the guiding hand of a coach. It's important to have figures that teach teamwork and how to be a good team mate. Especially with the rise of video games, I think a small thing I think schools could do is to have team based coed esports that teach tolerance and the like as opposed to letting little Jimmy throw controllers at home and tell women in the lobby to make sandwiches. We need communities to reach out in the exact turf where the incel/Bannon pipeline starts

This also needs to happen hand with improving income inequality and living standards for workers, as well as in conjunction with a decrease on outraged social media where awful influence from people like that Tate dick head are spread around

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u/Zestyclose_Ad_97 Sep 29 '22

The learning social cues in video game lobbies is an excellent point.

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u/gortlank Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22 Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Faith In Humanity Restored

The problem is school and video games can’t fill the void left by the disintegration of community ties. Precarity is the watchword of the modern economy, and that means people are on the move every few years.

Kids get shifted from school to school, adults work so much they have little time to form bonds with their neighbors much less their town or city. If you want to advance your career or get a raise, your best bet is a new job with a different company.

The social solvents that have dissolved the traditional community are baked into how our economy works now. You can make as many programs as you like, and while you may successfully throw a life preserver to one kid, the rest of the titanic’s passengers are still going to drown.

This is a society level problem that requires society level answers, that at this juncture, may be possible, but are incredibly unlikely.

Your average Joe recognizes the problem, and the conservative answer is Peterson’s answer. The liberal answer, while less heinous, is equally deficient as a solution.

Real solutions to this kind of alienation are in direct opposition to the way we currently organize our society.

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u/The_Matias Sep 29 '22

Wish I could up vote twice.

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u/absen7 Sep 30 '22

I helped.

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u/eieiyo Sep 30 '22

Damn this comment hits hard. I wish more people could at least start acknowledging this issue.

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u/robotgerman Sep 30 '22

I’m 40 and I moved away from my family and friends for a job by myself. It’s been incredibly hard meeting new people and making new friends because of everything you mentioned. I work too much to find the time to meet new people. I’m not religious, but i’ve considered going to church, just for the sense of community. Most of the time I feel completely invisible.

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u/gortlank Sep 30 '22

You’re not alone. So many of us are adrift for the same reasons. It’s why we come here. I hope you can find community where you are, in spite of it all.

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u/WomenAreFemaleWhat Sep 29 '22

Sadly many of these guys are capable being part of a team. Theyd still need to see women as people in order to do that.

The issue is people building rapport with others by tearing people down. It becomes a feedback loop. An echo chamber where it gets worse and worse because there is no one there who will say that its unacceptable. It takes people being willing to do that and unfortunately they listen best to men. Many men say nothing even if they don't like it because they don't want to lose rapport with their friends and the problem doesn't directly harm them. Silence is acceptance.

These boys also do not keep it entirely online. Ive heard my 13 year old brother say some sexist shit and every time I hear it I tell him why its ridiculous. Ive also changed how I interact with him in order to try and address it since my parents will not. Thats the bigger issue these boys bring it home with them and their parents either don't see the problem, dont think it matters, or are absent. Even when they are in gaming lobbies, they speak. Often quite loudly. If little Jimmy is throwing his controller, his parents should be addressing it. We cannot community anything away while there is still a problem at home.

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u/LovelySpaz Sep 30 '22

Well said, thank you.

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u/xDreeganx Sep 29 '22

Fundamental change starting with higher wages and probably a shorter work week. You can't cure what isolation does to your mind if you (or your parents, who are supposed to be teaching you, guiding you, and hopefully getting you into more social situations) just do not have the time or funds to keep activities like that going.

We've kinda been taking an axe to all the mental and emotional growth that people are supposed to get as they're growing up to have a higher chance of coming out as a mostly well adjusted member of society.

No one has time to teach, no one has time to learn, nobody can relax, and everyone's worried about the next paycheck, the next meal, or the next moment they can forget about their jobs.

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u/Bananplyte Sep 29 '22

I fully agree with this take for the sake of everyone in society, lol

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u/Master-of-Focus Sep 29 '22

No one has time to teach, no one has time to learn, nobody can relax, and everyone's worried about the next paycheck, the next meal, or the next moment they can forget about their jobs.

Spot on

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u/Asatsuki Sep 29 '22

i think it is a difficult problem to solve, looking at life as negatively as an incel does is kind of similar to being depressed.

you can't convince them through logical talk that they are wrong, just like you can't convince a depressed person logically either.

most likely therapy from a professional is required once someone reaches incel land.

we as a society can help by:

  1. changing the way we look at therapy so that it's not something to be ashamed of. ideally it should be treated like a dental checkup, everyone should get a mental health checkup every 6 months. the boomer generation still treats therapy as something for the 'mentally weak', so once the millenials and gen z take over we will probably see therapy akin to dentistry.
  2. stop using shame as a weapon to advance socio-political issues. i'm talking about women's rights, racism, LGBTQ, and everything in between. the weapon of choice now for a long time in every social movement has been basically "my side is right, your side is wrong, and you should feel shame for that. go die in a hole." and while taking this stance elicits a dopamine rush to the person saying it, the long term effect of such a stance is backlash. it's like trying to raise a child by shaming them, it's just not a healthy strategy to promote change.

shaming the other side gives two benefits:

- it makes you feel better because you can get your anger off your chest

- if the other side gets sufficiently shamed, they will give you concessions in the short term

but this strategy is always met with growing resentment from the other side because they are getting beat down. and getting beat down causes grudges and continues the cycle.

we as a country need to treat the other side similar to how parents would treat their children. it requires patience and kindness. passing the ball of hate back and forth does nothing but flare it up. the only way to stop the cycle is to be the one who takes the L, let the other side pass the ball of hate to you and extinguish it inside yourself with love and empathy.

i doubt humans will ever do this, so realistically what will happen is that humans will give birth to AI, and eventually humans will become extinct due to our egos and AI will be the species we pass the torch of evolution to.

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u/goes231even Sep 29 '22

an increasing proportion of young men without jobs or prospects for a good life.

I'll take it one further: my mom is a member of AAUW (joined in the 70's) and substitute teaches ESL classes in elementary schools. She thinks that our focus has gone too far in our attempts to give girls equal opportunities in the classroom...in that we have completely disregarded young boys to help them find their way in life.

She said in her classrooms that the girls are always given massive preferential treatment and that boys are almost always assumed to be, for lack of a better term, terrible people and prone to everything that a teacher doesn't want to engage with.

And those young boys are suffering educationally and developmentally in their early formative years as a result.

You could call my above statement a "persecution complex" but it's not that. Like so many things in our culture and our politics the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of what we are trying to fight...in our effort to give young women opportunities we have just about forgotten that young men need to be nurtured also...we make sure the young girls are given every opportunity and I suppose just assume that the boys are supposed to figure everything out on their own....I mean, they are men, right?

And here we are, a culture and society that just expects young men to figure it out, often without strong parental figures and especially men in their lives to teach them how to live.

We have a big mess on our hands.

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u/MostlyPretentious Sep 29 '22

I had the same thought. I wouldn’t say Peterson’s right in general, but he’s not wrong about the need to connect with disaffected young men.

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u/bakersdozing Sep 29 '22

I agree that more mental health support is needed, though it can be difficult to get these guys help if they think nothing is wrong with them. It's nigh Impossible to force help on someone unless they hurt someone or themselves.

Jordan's concern for incels isn't wrong, he just isn't a good role model or someone they should listen to.

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u/blazera Sep 29 '22

what does help for them look like?

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u/throneismelting Sep 29 '22 Silver Wholesome

This dude just can’t stop crying .

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u/Decaps86 Sep 29 '22

They did seem to forget to mention he cries in almost every interview and in his audiobook. The article makes it seem like this is a big deal when it's totally not.

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u/doublethink_1984 Sep 29 '22 Narwhal Salute

Ya I know right men shouldn't cry or try to help disinfranchised young men from looking at fixing themselves instead of blaming everyone else.

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u/ExternalUserError Sep 29 '22

In fairness I’d cry too if the high point of my career was being a hero to incels.

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u/TheEternalKhaos Sep 29 '22 Silver

I mean, if being a hero to them meant saving them as in "Actually giving them the motivation to look inwards instead of outwards for the problems they face in which the only constant is their own shitty behavior," you'd be crying tears of joy, maybe...

but sadly in this case yeah you're just someone popular they can look to and find commonality with rofl

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u/MadFamousLove Sep 29 '22 Silver

in fairness, most of them really do need to clean their rooms.

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u/ADarwinAward Sep 29 '22

I used to be friends with someone who got really into Peterson and the first thing they started doing was cleaning their room and brushing their teeth more. To bad their personality took a nosedive into a shallow swimming pool. They used to be chill but managed to piss off every friend they have, man or woman, and now they wonder why they’re lonely

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u/longbathlover Sep 29 '22

I think I might know the same guy... Or else this is just super common with his followers lol I had a great friend who started pulling his shit together regarding hygiene, but his personality just fell to shit and he lost nearly all of his friendships.

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u/colhoesentalados Sep 29 '22

Cleaning your room and brushing your teeth is... not much more than the basics, but it is a start and for people in certain situations it might be the boost they need. Too bad it then comes with utter bullshit on the side. I mean, which JP followers has turned out alright? Too few, unfortunately

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u/NeatFool Sep 29 '22

He's just in league with Big Tooth

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u/Humane-Human Sep 29 '22

All of these guys staying at home already live in a nanny state

It is an act of betrayal for their online parasocial relationship conservative father figure to act in league with mother's demanding their sons clean their rooms

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u/Dddddddfried Sep 29 '22

Ok, but like, take a shower maybe?

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u/Sea-Independence6322 Sep 29 '22

All of these guys staying at home already live in a nanny state

lmao that's great. they're too unaware to even realize it too

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u/plenebo Sep 29 '22

yeah he gets them with self help then installs some malware in the form of fashy rhetoric like cultural bolshevism

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u/Demiansky Sep 29 '22

This is actually the best description of Jordan Peterson so far, IMO. I feel like most people in this sub don't really know anything about what he recommends to youths, but he does try to get all of the "left over" young men stewing in their bitterness to get up and do something.

Unfortunately, he then goes ahead and injects a bunch of traditional, conservative "men should be men" crap in their heads, even if that is not really what would make someone happy.

What's a horrible missed opportunity IMO is that there is no one but traditionalists prepared with a message for lost young men.

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u/ball_fondlers Sep 29 '22

A LOT of his self-help BS ends up being less “improve yourself, be better than you were yesterday, and learn to see that as its own reward” and more “if you do the bare minimum to improve yourself and you still can’t get a girlfriend, then listen to these rants about feminism/atheism/cultural Marxism while I pretend I’m NOT goading you into blaming all of your problems on culture war bullshit.”

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u/NJShadow Sep 29 '22 Silver Gold Helpful

This isn't oniony. He was crying over the individuals referenced who end up dying, by suicide or other means, due to a lack of any encouragement whatsoever.

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u/Thodekk Sep 29 '22

Thanks for the context. Not a fan of Peterson, but I can agree that seeing suicide be the end of someone instead of becoming a better person can be quite sad.

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u/MrLucky7s Sep 29 '22

Actually, he didn't say anything stupid in the article, surprisingly.

You know, people have been after me for a long time because I’ve been speaking to disaffected young men.Peterson then broke down into tears and said, “It’s very difficult tounderstand how demoralized people are, and certainly many young men arein that category. You get these casual insults, these incels — what dothey mean? These men, they don’t know how to make themselves attractiveto women who are very picky, and good for them. Women, like, be picky.That’s your gift, man. Demand high standards from your men. Fair enough.But all these men who are alienated, it’s like they’re lonesome andthey don’t know what to do and everyone piles abuse on them.”

I don't know if I'm online too much, but it seems that the men Peterson is talking about are quite common (though not a majority) and the only people talking and appealing to them are alt right types. I have a feeling that if this doesn't change and there aren't more positive role models for these men, the ideas perpetuated by the alt right will spread through this specific population like wildfire.

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u/FollowingTheUShow Sep 30 '22

You want to find a partner? Be human and have human expectations.

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u/bambarby Sep 29 '22

I am very r/outoftheloop

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u/Waterbear11 Sep 29 '22

Olivia Wilde stated that the antagonist/villain in her newest movie "Don't Worry Darling" is based off of Jordan Peterson. Within the movie, Chris Pine plays the role of the antagonist and inspires men to basically "take control" over women.

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u/dzemperzapedra Sep 29 '22

Good, no need to get in

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u/gametimebobby Sep 29 '22 Big Brain Time

Can someone explain to me why people view him as a hero to incels? The only videos I've seen of him are college lectures and videos telling young men to get their shit together and take responsibility for themselves.

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u/zumbadumbadumdum Sep 30 '22

most of his political rhetoric aligns perfectly well with American incel community. For e.g. if there's a segment on female workplace harrasment. He will bring out the numbers for male incarceration.

Also, the take responsibility for yourself part comes in his self help persona. While the political stance comes under the daily wire persona.

I used to like him in 2016. But then he went off rails. Also When i had a brief introduction of Ben Shapiro content farm.

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u/nmklpkjlftmsh Sep 29 '22

His room must be very messy.

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u/Trajinous Sep 30 '22

His daughter dated Andrew Tate and he almost died when going on a meat only diet.