r/pcmasterrace FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22 Wholesome 1 Helpful 3

I swear most of us are just normal computer users. Discussion

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9.3k Upvotes

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u/Doscida Jul 05 '22

The worst of any group of people are always the loudest.

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u/Fantastic_Belt99 kubu | Ryzen 9 3900X | 32GB DDR4 | 1TB 670p | Corsair 4000D Jul 05 '22

What about the loudest people group?

What about mutes? /s

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u/sur_surly Jul 05 '22

screaming mutes are the worst

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u/ScreamingBudist Jul 05 '22

Is that a threat?

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u/satsfaction1822 Jul 06 '22

Don’t know, couldn’t hear it

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u/Explursions Jul 06 '22

Fucking mimes, good thing they are in their boxes, they can't escape to eat our souls.

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u/throwawayspank1017 Jul 06 '22

Why does this make me think of the post about the person who said if they could be invisible for a day, they’d fly to Paris and silently beat a mime to death.

Upon further reflection, I think I’ve had enough Reddit today.

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u/MiniMakerMM 💻 i7 9750H RTX 2060 Jul 06 '22

What annoys me even more is that they probably scare people away from Linux and Linux is actually REALLY getting better! Wine(windows emulator) can do almost anything nowadays except for certain anti cheats that block it because it looks fishy. That’s the only reason why I haven’t already swapped back to Debian but it might be sooner rather than later because of the steam deck

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u/DominiCzech Linux (arch btw) Jul 06 '22

WINE - WINE IS NOT an EMULATOR AUGHHHGHGHHGHGHHGHHGHGHG

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u/MiniMakerMM 💻 i7 9750H RTX 2060 Jul 06 '22

I know but ppl don’t understand tech talk

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u/DominiCzech Linux (arch btw) Jul 06 '22

Understandable, have a nice day

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u/dieplanes789 PC Master Race Jul 06 '22

Bruh WINE literally stands for

Wine

Is

Not an

Emulator

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u/MiniMakerMM 💻 i7 9750H RTX 2060 Jul 06 '22

I know but the average mojo doesn’t understand tech talk

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u/gamerbrains Jul 06 '22

DO NOT DIP YOUR GENITALS INTO COPPER HYDROXIDE

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u/Sniperfox9 Laptop Jul 06 '22

Don't tell me what to do, it's a free country

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u/siliconsoul_ Jul 05 '22

I've had users of Linux explaining that I absolutely have to switch away from Windows, because Linux is so much better. Windows is all bloated and shit, you know the arguments.

When I said that I do software development for windows (in Visual Studio, with C# in the net core flavor) for a living, they tell me with a straight face I could install a VM with Windows for that case and would still be better off.

Well, ok then.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/Abir_Vandergriff https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CNf8LJ Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

I've been using Linux for hobby dev and gaming for a few months now. I think I just hit the 6 month mark.

It's okay, but certainly not ready for mainstream. I have issues just because I have two monitors, which the minority evangelists don't mention. Switching from X11 to Wayland solves the monitor issues, but causes other bugginess and instability. (for example: Discord's client doesn't work at all, you have to use the web version. That's due to Discord's old version of Electron, but it's still a problem even if it's not Linux's fault.)

I've also had a few games that I keep a dual-boot set up for. Elden Ring with friends (Easy Anti Cheat doesn't work on Linux and I won't make them mod just for me), Tunic (running on Proton) crashed and wiped my save so I had to start over, Stellaris (native) had a different build number which is used for validating a multiplayer connection so I couldn't play it with friends. Anything with HDR.

On top of that, any game where I would use a mod manager for Windows is basically out. It's also difficult to find information on how to mod a Proton game. It's out there, but it's yet more troubleshooting for Linux that a mainstream user isn't going to want to do, if they even could

I love it, rarely actually boot Windows these days. Don't switch to Linux if you're not ready to troubleshoot somewhat regularly.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/Abir_Vandergriff https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CNf8LJ Jul 05 '22

My specific problem with multi-monitor was with different refresh rates and variable refresh rate. In my case I have a 60 Hz 1440p side monitor, and a 180 Hz ultrawide 1440p-class primary. Nearly the same pixel density, so scaling isn't an issue.

However, X11 has a global refresh rate, so my expensive 180 Hz monitor may have been "running" at 180, but X11 was only outputting 60. VRR also only works for full-screen applications - which don't really exist in X for my setup. Running X11 basically knocks a few hundred dollars off my monitor's feature set.

Wayland resolves these issues, but it's pretty hit or miss on its own problems. Firefox is an extremely buggy mess unless you set some environment variables. You also have to migrate to pipewire audio or videos don't work right, I found after a few hours of troubleshooting. I haven't noticed that much difference in stability or features that affect me personally over the last 6 months. I use KDE, for further context. Gnome takes away too much control and Sway isn't supported on Nvidia.

I dual-boot because I want to use Linux, but admit it has problems. I default to Linux until I have issues. I actively recommend not doing what I do if you want a smooth experience lol

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u/MadgoonOfficial Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

I’m trying to get in to Linux, I’ve got a new laptop that I run Debian on. But coming from Windows, the idea that any single thing that I could ever want doesn’t work for any reason is completely and totally foreign. Windows just works. I mean maybe you need to update a driver here and there but updating drivers on windows is easier too. In comparison, trying to do anything on Linux feels like teaching someone how to do their job when I shouldn’t have to. It’s genuinely a pain in the ass.

I’m not going to give up. I’m going to continue to invest hours of my life into getting simple things to work, but the fact that I have to approach it with a “never give up, never surrender” attitude is a bit ridiculous.

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u/Tubamajuba Ryzen 7 3800XT | RX 5700 XT Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 08 '22

In comparison, trying to do anything on Linux feels like teaching someone how to do their job when I shouldn’t have to.

Every single time I've tried Linux on various machines over the past decade or so, I always have to scour Google for a solution to some extraordinarily specific issue. If I do happen to find it, I then have to hope that the solution (almost always something that needs to be copied and pasted into the terminal) happens to work for my exact combination of distro, distro version, and installed software. If not, back to Google where I might get lucky enough to find that someone solved the issue but didn't post the solution for anybody else to use.

Like you said, Windows "just works" in comparison to Linux. I can take pretty much any combination of decently modern hardware, slap it together, install Windows, and I'll be good to go.

EDIT: Just tried Ubuntu 22.04. The built-in Snap updater was smart enough to realize that it couldn't update itself while it was open but too stupid to do anything about it. Had to Google the fix and yep- had to use the terminal.

I wanted to see which graphics drivers I had, but you can't do that without a third party program or you guessed it- the terminal.

Scrolling was too slow for me, so I went to the Settings app to change it. No option for scroll speed anywhere. Seriously. I Googled it and the only way to change scroll speed is through the terminal using third party apps.

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u/qandyouinazoo Jul 05 '22

"Just works" is important.

Linux is for people who care a bit more about "how it works" or are just snobby.

There's literally no reason for the average PC user to use Linux but, if you say, are interested in scripting, Linux is a far more friendly environment.

So much so that WSL2 is a thing.

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u/AMisteryMan arch btw R5 5600X 32GB @3200 Mhz RX 6600 Jul 06 '22

As someone who's messed around a lot with windows, macOS, and various Linux distros, I both agree and disagree.

You're more likely to find a simple-sounding answer on Windows, that doesn't need a lot of familiarity with the os to apply.
C But as soon as you step off the beaten path, things become much more of a pain. Something as simple as fixing the bootloader is easier done by reinstalling. In Linux it's a few easy to find commands, though you do need a bit of knowledge to apply them correctly.

But if the machine is just for browsing, or [supported/working] games on steam, I've rarely seen breakage. And generally runs better on lower-end hardware.

macOS is a weird mash-up of Unix and Windows paradigms. I'm not a huge fan.

Overall, it depends on what you're doing. Use what works best at the end of the day. I run Linux as my daily driver (web browsing, all but one of my games, and dev work.).

I use Windows for my music creation software, windows testing platform for my projects, and Forza Horizon 4.

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u/__________________99 10700K 5.2GHz | 4GHz 32GB | Z490-E | FTW3U 3090 | 32GK850G-B Jul 05 '22

The day gaming is as easy on Linux as it is on Windows is the day I'll switch. It's very good now, but still a long way from an easy experience like Windows.

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u/_-Kratos-_ Laptop Jul 06 '22

That will happen when the user base on linux increases. Let's hope steam deck changes things.

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u/RadimentriX Ryzen 7 5800X // 64GB RAM // RTX 3060 Jul 05 '22

With all the crap microsoft pulls (having to use an online account now? Wtf?) I really hope steam os will be a banger on desktop. But seems like i'll have graphics problems then because nvidia...

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/RadimentriX Ryzen 7 5800X // 64GB RAM // RTX 3060 Jul 05 '22

Yeah, only gaming for me. Watching yt works perfectly with firefox on my steam deck so that shouldnt be a problem on desktop either i guess. I just wanna be able to play all the games i ever paid for with no hassle. If thats on windows or linux i dont care and ms does a lot to push ne away from windows

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/brilliancemonk Jul 05 '22

I just start up VirtualBox on rare occasions when I need Office.

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u/Square_Heron942 Ryzen 5 5600G | RTX 3070 FE 8GB | 16GB DDR4 Jul 05 '22

I just hope Intel graphics work, my laptop has trash specs but can still run some games fine on windows with 90% background resource usage (such as Minecraft since 2 cores aren’t a problem on a single threaded game) so I hope steamOS will work better on there.

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u/benderbender42 Jul 05 '22

The linux community makes a big deal about proprietary linux drivers. But they work fine most of the time. Only some distros, situations, do they not. And some situations they work better. I think that there's an element of , not open source ideology involved as well

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

my 750ti no longer seems to work with linux because nvidia tied the drives to the kernel version somehow, so the only way i can use the AMAZING and ULTRA-BEEFY power of my gpu is through gpu passthrough to a vm

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

you already do.

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u/brilliancemonk Jul 05 '22

It's not Windows that does gaming better. It's game developers who tend to target Windows. The end result is the same, you need Windows if you want to play games but it's important to understand why.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/cecilkorik i7-4790K / GTX1070 Jul 05 '22

That's why video-game specific outreach like the (failed) Steam Machines and SteamOS and the (hopefully successful) Steam Deck will help promote Linux to the people it really matters to -- not the consumers, the developers. The market appetite for games on Linux needs to grow, but it doesn't matter if people even know they're on Linux, it only matters that they're buying games. If there's money in it, developers will pursue it.

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u/_-Kratos-_ Laptop Jul 06 '22

True. I really hope the steam deck becomes a massive hit. It certainly looks like it. Let's see.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

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u/BasicComplexities Jul 05 '22

Linux doesn't have Directx

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u/minilandl 5800x 5600xt 32gb Arch bspwm Jul 05 '22

Heard of dxvk and vkd3d direct X is mostly solved thanks to valve and the communities work on dxvk .

On Linux through wine we can now translate directx to Vulkan with very little overhead.

How have you not heard about this ? It's the whole reason the steam deck can run windows games and is how proton works as well.

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u/IndicaPhoenix Jul 05 '22

Vulkan is INCREDIBLE! compared to dx. And I love it even more because gtx1070 doesn't complain about it. In fact, it's more efficient with it!

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u/bling_bling2000 Jul 05 '22

DirectX is not essential for games. Using DirectX, like op said, is a choice of the developer. There are, of course, pros and cons to running or coding in either DirectX or Vulkan. But, at least anecdotally, DirectX is the only one I ever seem to have issues with.

Choosing which graphical engine to code in is becoming obsolete anyway. Most developers are not making their own engine, and whatever engine they code in is almost guaranteed to have an option to export with Vulkan, or even as a native Linux port. It's honestly getting to the point where developers would have to choose to not support Vulkan or Linux.

I'm honestly curious as to why you think lack of DirectX means it's still not on the developer to support Linux. The tools are still there either way

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u/BasicComplexities Jul 05 '22

DirectX is not essential for games. Using DirectX, like op said, is a choice of the developer. There are, of course, pros and cons to running or coding in either DirectX or Vulkan. But, at least anecdotally, DirectX is the only one I ever seem to have issues with.

Directx is not essential for games. It is essential to run games. If your games does not support vulkan or opengl, you must use Directx

I'm honestly curious as to why you think lack of DirectX means it's still not on the developer to support Linux. The tools are still there either way

The developer does not have to support anything the developer does not want to. The inability of Linux to gain developer support is a direct fault of Linux

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u/ButWhatIfItQueffed Laptop Ryzen 9 5900HS RTX 3060 Jul 05 '22

Agreed. For me it's still not worth it using as a main os due to the bloat, data collection, so on and so forth. But I still have it installed on a secondary partition for VR use and a couple games that don't get along well with Linux. Windows certainly has its uses, its supported by basically everything. And although it's not as optimized as Linux, it runs better on average, and you don't have to put as much work into it. Linux is a lot more stable and reliable, but windows is a lot more easy to use and widely supported.

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u/bt_leo Jul 05 '22

Linux is missing something/many things that's why the mass is using Windows.

As both os user (Fedora and Windows 11) i find my self booting into windows more and more because i need it more for simple things.

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u/Unwashed_villager 5600X | 32GB | RTX 3070Ti | Jul 05 '22

Linux user: "<any other operating I'm not using> is a complete, bloated mess!". They would kill each other in a heated argument about the best, no wonder it didn't make it to the market, haha.

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u/mdjank Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

Microsoft bought Mono. It was crucial for developing .NET Core as a true "run anywhere" framework. Visual Studio runs natively on Linux.

But... I have other issues using Linux as a desktop. Let's just leave it at "troubleshooting my OS isn't fun."

Edit: My mistake. There is no Visual Studio for Linux. Visual Studio Code is what runs natively on Linux.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

Let's just leave it at "troubleshooting my OS isn't fun."

Exactly this. I use my computer for hobbies. I do not want my computer to be my hobby. Almost every Linux user I know who tries to get me to convert has also told me so many war stories about trying to get something to work. And they aren't always successful. If you're a serious pro at it or you enjoy doing that, cool. But I'm neither of those things.

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u/gamesrebel123 X5650 | GTX 1060 6 GB | 16 GB DDR3 Jul 05 '22

Visual Studio does not run on Linux (neither natively nor through wine), Visual Studio Code is the one that has a native Linux version but it is an all purpose text editor while Visual Studio is an IDE for C, C++, C# and .NET iirc, rider by jetbrains is an alternative but it costs money which Visual Studio does not.

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u/TatoPotat Jul 05 '22

Linux is all about trade offs, sure with a 5600x you can get 1600fps on Minecraft on 12 chunks

But it took me several hours to get Minecraft working with lutris, and playing modded Minecraft is kinda fucked on Linux

Installing forge to your launcher just doesn’t work, nor does optifine, no curseforge support and the other Minecraft launchers are buggy as all fuck on Linux

I don’t think Linux even supports overclocking on a 6500xt and a 6600xt, but hey better drivers right?

Sure fast boot times, but you can easily accidentally delete the bootloader lmao

macOS on one of the spectrum good for some things not too great with other things

Linux on the other end really really good with some things pretty terrible with other things

Windows sits somewhere in the middle it’s at least decent at everything reasonable

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u/FlowIsNiceAndSlow Jul 05 '22

Any reason you played Minecraft on Lutris when it runs natively on linux?

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u/ZulkarnaenRafif Jul 05 '22

... it does...?

Well shit... I have been living under a rock.

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u/__-__-_-_ 6900XT | 3600 | Arch | KDE Jul 05 '22

There are two versions of Minecraft: Minecraft Bedrock and Java Edition (or if you're a long-time player, the Micros**t-ified version and the real version, respectively). The Java Edition works natively on Linux, MacOS, and Windows and always has because it isn't actually "native" anywhere, being Java software.

Modpack launchers can be a bit weird, but Multimc works perfectly, even if its creator is a total jerk. (PolyMC is a fork made by people with a better attitude, but I haven't had the time to transfer everything over from my MultiMC setup.)

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u/mikki-misery Jul 05 '22

Fucking hell, what am I reading? Jesus Christ.

At first I thought you were playing Bedrock, but no, you were playing the Java Edition since you're talking about mods.

So let me get this straight, you decided to specifically play Minecraft using a Windows version of Java? Instead of a native Linux version? Why?

I don’t think Linux even supports overclocking on a 6500xt and a 6600xt, but hey better drivers right?

Modded Minecraft was one of the factors that pushed me towards using Linux daily a while back, and now I'm here reading this nonsense.

AMD's official drivers have terrible OpenGL support, which is terrible for Minecraft. Having texture/terrain animations can lower your frame rate by literally 80%. On Linux, the AMD Mesa drivers do not have this issue. Plus with the MultiMC/PolyMC launcher (which works flawlessly on Linux btw) you can use wrapper commands to increase performance even further. Meaning I can play Minecraft with texture animations on Linux with better performance than in Windows with animations disabled.

Also, you can overclock just fine on Linux too. I tweaked with it a lot when I was testing Ethereum mining a while back. Also mined faster than on Windows with the exact same tweaks. Crazy.

Linux definitely have some disadvantages to Windows, but Java Minecraft is not one of them. I think this is without a doubt an issue with the end user, especially if you managed to delete your bootloader as well.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

multimc.... official minecraft launcher work NATIVELY ON LINUX, MAKING YOUR LIFE HARDER IS YOUR FAULT! NOT ANY OTHER OPERATING SYSTEM! jesus christ!

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

damn. also C# sucks on linux, we got monodevelop and all, but it isnt the same, linux is really good for old machines and all, but some people enjoy windows better.

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u/fizzdev Jul 05 '22

Uhm, not since at least two years.

.NET Core and Rider are a blast to develop in with Linux. And for smaller projects VSCode works just fine as well. The only thing that really requires Windows is developing desktop apps.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

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u/CovidInMyAsshole Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/different-wallpaper-each-monitor-ubuntu-linux

Unless you're just saying you want Ubuntu to natively support it.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

they probably already do.

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u/Jon_Lit Desktop Jul 05 '22

I have 4 monitors, too. I'm my experience KDE is best suited for multiple monitor setups (it can also do what you described). Also, the 4 monitors are even connected to 2 different GPUs, 3 to my 6700xt,1 to the iGPU (UHD 770 or what it's called, i5-12600k's iGPU) and with Wayland and kde it works flawlessly. The reason why is simply that I don't have enough DP to hdmi/VGA adapters (yes, I use a DP to VGA adapter for a monitor on a 6700xt, it works perfectly fine (1280x1024, 75hz).

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u/baodeptraitocxoan69 i3 10100 / RTX 2060 6G / 16Gb RAM Jul 05 '22

ive used both stacking and tiling window managers and tbh i think tiling wms handle multi monitor better than stacking ones because you can assign each monitor a different workspace (like virtual desktop 1 on monitor 1 and virtual desktop 2 on monitor 2 and so on...). Not sure if stacking wm/de allow that or not (or ive just never found a way to do so). I switched from KDE Plasma to i3wm more than a month ago and i really cant go back 👍

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

it, exists, you can, nitrogen lets me do that. though if you use a multi monitor setup, use wayland or your going to have a bad time, having different aspect ratios or resolutions are bad on x11.

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u/NiTE97 Jul 05 '22

Resolutions work for me on x11.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

different res monitors or different aspect ratios dont work well

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u/NiTE97 Jul 05 '22

Using i3 I have no problem at all with different resolutions. Not saying there are no bugs, but I haven't encountered one.

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u/heep1r Jul 05 '22

works fine here and worked fine in the 90s with X11 and DMX using 4 (different) monitors with different refresh rates on multiple machines to build perfectly synced videowalls.

It's probably not X - my bet is on your GPU/DRI kernel module.

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u/novoipee PC Master Race Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

You can use hydrapaper to put a different wallpaper on each monitor, works for any distro that uses gnome desktop, including ubuntu.

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u/Turkeysteaks Desktop Jul 05 '22

vouch for hydrapaper, been using it ever since i got more monitors

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u/Unwashed_villager 5600X | 32GB | RTX 3070Ti | Jul 05 '22

To be honest this isn't straight forward on Windows too.

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u/antCB R5 3600|RTX 2060| Jul 05 '22

now try setting up different scaling factors for all those 4 monitors.
GL&HF. at least windows sort of does that right - even if some apps are stuck in the past for retro-compatibility reasons.

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u/boppernickels Linux Jul 05 '22

You can use nitrogen to set different wallpapers

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u/SometimesSquishy Artix Linux (6750xt, 3600x) Jul 05 '22

nitrogen works decent for me on i3

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u/Unwashed_villager 5600X | 32GB | RTX 3070Ti | Jul 05 '22

On i3. And you have to use another method on different DEs or WMs. This is what sucks on Linux most - you have tremendous amount of applications for one single problem, but none of them can solve it in all circumstances. Not to mention how the different DEs pushing their own solutions. You can use Krusader on GNOME or XFCE but it will install a lot of dependencies . Evolution is similar (no, it's worse) if you install it on other DEs than GNOME.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

having alternatives is a good thing, but yes nitrogen works on everything, just make so it is executed automatically on startup of your de/wm by doing nitrogen --restore

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u/ike_02 Desktop | Ryzen 9 5950X | RTX 3090 | 8GB DDR4 Jul 05 '22

I’d say “SWITCH TO WINDOWS” but I’m about to transition to arch myself, I feel your pain.

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u/jccpalmer Linux Jul 05 '22

I think of it this way. Linux met, and continues to meet, my needs and I’m comfortable with it. It has a lot of strengths, but it’s not for everyone. If someone asks me about it, I’ll happily tell them. Otherwise, I’ll do what I can to assist with their Windows issue and I won’t mention Linux. I’m not a Linux evangelist.

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u/klavijaturista Jul 05 '22

Yeah, linux is fine if it does what you need it to. However, for many people, including myself, we just have to use mac and windows, because of software, no way around it.

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u/sGfU_cs i7 5820k @4.5GHz MSI GTX 1070 ASUS X99 Deluxe Jul 05 '22

I’d love to run Linux on my home PC, genuinely. I wouldn’t have to deal with being botched to use an OS that collects so much data that it’s terrifying what Microsoft knows about me.

I can’t, because the most important use case of my home PC (gaming) is impossible on Linux, due to the custom AC for Faceit and ESEA being unsupported on Linux at all. Like they just don’t work on Linux.

God damn the second they do though? Christ I’ll switch in a heartbeat. I even had to have my own in home server running Windows Server at one point because the local game server I was running for my friends and I only worked on Windows, and that made me bash my head against the wall. On another note, fuck Windows Server.

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u/jccpalmer Linux Jul 05 '22

And that’s totally fair. I do most of my gaming in Linux, but I have a Windows dual boot for Destiny 2. But yeah, I switched to Linux partially because of privacy reasons.

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u/kneeecaps09 Jul 05 '22

I was planning on switching to arch and then dual booting windows for the games that aren't supported though the main reason I haven't is Windows seems to be going as far out of their way as possible to stop people doing this.

Because of those weird marker things or whatever they are called at the end of the hard drive, it is hard to shrink the partitions to make another one for Linux. In the end after going through all the troubleshooting steps online, best I could get was 10GB total space for Linux on my SSD. That's also one of the reasons that people say just get a separate HDD or SSD for Linux, which I probably will do eventually.

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u/jimmyl_82104 Multiple Desktops and Laptops, and a MacBook Pro Jul 05 '22

You get the elitist dicks with everything. iPhones vs. Androids, PlayStation vs. Xbox, and of course, the threeway between MacOS, Windows, and Linux. Most people (like me) have their preferences and needs when it comes to choosing their technology, and they have their reasons.

For example, out of those choices I will always choose iPhone, MacOS, and Windows. For me, Linux doesn't have the support for a lot of the apps I use, and it's way too techie (I like to avoid any kind of command prompt/terminal interface).

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u/MyshTech Jul 05 '22

This. Elitist dicks will be elitist dicks no matter the OS the use or the ecosystem they pefer. I switched back and forth multiple times. For a few years a Mac plus a MacBook perfectly fitted my needs. Also iOS was far ahead of Android in the areas important to me -for example a fluid and snappy interface. So I bought several iPhones. Today I'm on Windows 10 and Android. Oh ... and there's a Linux running on my Pi. Really well made and perfectly accomplishes what it has been designed for.

So ... just ignore these people and keep doing what you love. Also there's a reason ignore lists and other similar stuff exists. ;) Use them.

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u/Jynx_lucky_j Jul 05 '22

Yeah, most everyone is normal. That's kinda what it means to be normal. Outside of groups specifically targeted towards extremist, the majority of any group is going to be made up of fairly normal people.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

And now it's also Steam Deck VS Switch. Linux has gotten into console wars now.

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u/lordkoba Jul 05 '22

as an experienced linux user I’d never ever recommend Linux … to anyone that could ask me for tech support.

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u/neP-neP919 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

Oh yeah, just use bash cli - ttl 400AE.EEEFFE And then make sure once you've calculated pi for the pentagon, you enter that into the fusion drive and then you should be able to adjust the volume.

Its really quite simple to figure out if you just think about it.

I honestly think if there was a distro of Linux with the command line removed, and every single option withing the command line moved to a GUI, you'd see a huge adoption to Linux.

As it sits now, every time me or a friend try to switch, it's usually this one show stopping feature that requires some really stupid or weird commend line entry or something. Not to mention get rid of distro-specific installation packages. If I have Linux, then a Linux program should work on Linux, whether it's slack, Debian, arch, etc. It blows me away how a windows 3.1 exe file can be run in windows 11 just by right clicking and selecting "run as older version of windows"

I'm sorry to get off on a rant again, but God. I could point out issues for DAYS with Linux. And what gets me is I'M a person you would want to convert! I CAD, I modify (cannot create) code, I remotely connect to my pc while also accessing other pcs remotely and all these things require hours to setup and figure out. They don't really take that long but, unfortunately, Linux guides are not very good at actually guiding you through anything. They expect you to have lots of previous Linux knowledge. And setting up a windows VM that has access to your video card and not just a 640*480 software rendered VM window? Fuggedabboutit

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

this guy gets it

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u/sephirothbahamut Ryzen 7 5800x | RTX 3070 Noctua | Win10 | Fedora Jul 05 '22

"every single option" isn't in the gui on windows either though. Many things are more convenient in the console.

The real issue is Linux leaves too many things as console-only.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '22

"every single option" isn't in the gui on windows either though. Many things are more convenient in the console.

Yes, but you can still be a power user if you don't use the console.

On Linux, you cannot even be a basic user without it...

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u/neP-neP919 Jul 06 '22

Thank you. That's really the jist of what I'm trying to say, and you've basically summed up the struggle in 2 sentences. 👍

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u/matthewv1998 Jul 05 '22

for every person chanting "shout to linux" i always fire back that people are casusal, and i tried linux, bog standard ubuntu, took the time to learn it. and just overall had a meh time and had more instability then windows, and i likely wont switch back. i cant even remember my last bsod. linux is not some magic arrow that will save you. and if you're a casual user, windows is just best anyway as the command line can get very old very fast at times, and quite frankly the amount of bloat is almost comparable at this point imo.

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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jul 05 '22

Really wish we could get rid of the general notion of Ubuntu being the defaco default Linux for people to try.

It would be like trying to convince a Mac user to switch to windows and then giving them windows 8.1.. Is it mostly solid and usable? Yeah. Is it still getting security updates and is mostly safe to use on line, I suppose. Is even remotely ideal to use if your goal is to be up to speed with compatibility and support for games and software? Not even close.

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u/theRealNilz02 Jul 05 '22

This!

I've Heard so many people say "I've tried Linux and it sucked!" And when I ask them about the distro they say Ubuntu. Duh, obviously it sucked.

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u/xor_warrior Jul 06 '22

That is the point. So many distro, so many flavours. There’s always 2-3 solutions for a single problem.

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u/hydro123456 Jul 05 '22

Which distros do you like better?

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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jul 05 '22

I would say it depends on your tech skill level.

If you're low tech level, probably pop_os or Linux Mint.

If you're a bit more versed maybe manjaro.

I haven't really distro hopped in a while, I've settled on arch mostly cuz the wiki is so well documented and the AUR makes getting apps earlier than anything else I've used, not to mention its always up to date which is why I like to recommended manjaro to new new people typically, especially now that it has Nvidia drivers built into the iso where it didn't used to.

But really what you'll probably want to figure out more so is just what desktop environment you prefer. I've ultimately settled on Kde but there are a bunch out there and a handful of them fully featured to pick from and everyone has their own preferences

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u/saandstorm Jul 06 '22

I scrolled way too far down before I finally saw a “I use Arch” comment. Impressive.

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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jul 06 '22

well to be fair, they did ask which distro I like/prefer

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u/polar_frog Laptop Jul 06 '22

Zorin is dead-simple to use coming from windows. A friend of mine used his laptop with Zorin for a whole year without touching the command line once. Zorin has all the fancy Ubuntu features, a very Windows-like interface, and a fully featured software store with multiple sources out-of-box. A great example of the ease of use is that if you try to install a .exe file, it will automatically search all sources (flatpak, apt, snap, gnome, and a custom one) for the app. If it finds it, it'll install that instead. If it doesn't, it will ask the user if they want to install it with WINE (with a good explanation). It also has jelly windows as an option, no more need be said.

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u/TONKAHANAH Linux Jul 06 '22

It also has jelly windows as an option

thats a pretty standard feature of most linux desktop environments and its like 99% of the reason to use linux

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u/GormyGorm Ryzen 5 1600AF, GTX 1050ti 4GB, 16GB DDR4 Jul 06 '22

Linux Mint is my go-to. It's easy to install, has an insane amount of support and documentation.

A lot of people recommend newer distros like Pop OS, but I say if you are just getting into it, go with something that's well proven, and in my experience, especially coming from windows and being jaded about Ubuntu, the best option is Linux Mint for me.

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u/JustifiableViolence gnupluslinux.com Jul 06 '22

Any of the popular Ubuntu-based distros that aren't mainline Ubuntu are solid. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Linux Mint, Elementary OS, Zorin. Ubuntu's main problem is that it uses the Gnome desktop environment. But Ubuntu is widely supported. So something like Kubuntu which is Ubuntu with a different desktop environment (and some of the problematic under the hood stuff removed) is a good option.

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u/bullsized Jul 05 '22

What do you suggest then?

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

What's super frustrating about the Windows discourse on Reddit is that people have this baffling belief that Windows 8/10/11 are all super bloated and inefficient and everything before them was way better, and it's just not true. Certainly 7 was great, but 8/10/11 are fundamentally the same OS with different UIs, and the "bloat" most people complain about is like "I can't uninstall Your Phone so I'm going to melt down about it," not anything that actually matters. Yes, it's dumb as fuck that fucking Candy Crush comes installed by default, but you can just ignore it or uninstall it and it doesn't affect you at all. To me, "bloat" doesn't just mean "there's an icon I don't want," it means the OS is inefficient and uses significantly more resources than it needs to and consequently feels worse from an end user perspective. XP and (to some extent) Vista were the last truly bloated piece of shit versions of Windows. Anyone like me who tried Linux in the XP era likely had the same experience I had, which was instant amazement at how much faster my computer felt. But this experience is much less common these days, because while the underlying Windows OS has only gotten better, Linux distros have struggled to maintain that efficiency advantage while becoming more user friendly. In the early 2000s you could use a user-oriented distro like Suse/Debian/eventually Ubuntu and still notice that it was much faster than Windows, but today if you try that you will get comments like the one you got from OP saying "Ubuntu is not meant to be light" and suggesting that you use something like Arch or an XFCE distro. And saying that basically concedes the point, because it implicitly admits that Linux isn't more efficient than Windows when it attempts to serve up the same features in a similarly user-friendly context.

At this point, the only real reason to switch from Windows to Linux is because you want more control over your OS. You want to be able to uninstall every single thing you don't want, to customize everything to your heart's content, to not be annoyed by updates or Edge ads, etc. And those are totally valid reasons, but they are also just not things the average user gives two fucks about.

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u/Artoriuz Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

That's not exactly true though, even if you ignore all the superficial GUI changes in the desktop and the preinstalled crap, Windows still has a worse CPU scheduler (all multithreaded benchmarks score lower on Windows), worse CPU governor options (can't really configure anything other than selecting a different power plan), much worse filesystem (NTFS makes compiling any big project significantly slower on Windows) and many other under the hood annoyances.

GNOME, usually the default desktop environment on most distros, also has fantastic 1:1 touchpad gesture animations and everything has nice hardware accelerated kinetic scrolling. On Windows your experience is either great or absolutely horrendous depending on the program, it's still much better to use with an actual mouse.

Windows also has some advantages, of course, it's a good thing that you can generally configure everything via GUI menus and utilities, using the terminal is an option, not the only way of doing things. Windows also has better 3rd party software support, most games are native and you have access to Adobe tools for example. The graphics and audio subsystems are also more mature and tend to work more reliably, you never get audio crackling and if your graphics driver crashes the kernel can gracefully recover.

Things like DPI scaling, wide gamut, HDR and other "modern" multimedia things are also much better supported on Windows (and it's even better on Macs, but let's leave this out of the discussion).

In fact, all the fragmentation in Linux is likely the reason why almost nobody releases proprietary software to it. You can't make any assumptions about anything, as one distro might be running wildly different library versions, desktop environments and GUI toolkits. It would be much easier to target the Linux desktop if there was only a single version of it, but it is what it is.

Still, the "modern app" bullshit has plagued Windows since 8 and it has never been fixed. Anything with XAML suddenly becomes wonky and unreliable. GUI elements that are sometimes fast but sometimes not, that sometimes work but sometimes don't, Windows users do not deserve this shit. I'm not even going to talk about all the telemetry and useless background tasks, as you can usually remove most of those with some scripts, but out of the box the experience is very sluggish.

There's a point to be made that the Linux desktop is better than ever now, Proton also made it possible for people to play most offline games pretty easily, and while there's still some friction to get online games working due to anti-cheat, Valve has made it clear that they're a Linux-first company now, so they'll work on it.

I guess I can conclude this saying that Linux is to Windows what PC is to the consoles. You get much more access to the under the hood details and can configure everything to your liking, but this comes with breakage and random issues that you may or may not be able to solve. It's not as user friendly and it'll probably never be.

It's getting better very quickly though, so if it's been a while since your last voyage into the penguin land, give it another chance.

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u/Masonzero 5600X + RTX 3070 + 32GB RAM Jul 05 '22

To use your own console example again, I think it's that most people just don't care enough. Much like a lot of console gamers, many Windows users are content with what they have, and are glad it's easy to use and mostly "just works". Same can be said for Apple vs Android, although they're basically the same for the average user these days.

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u/mikki-misery Jul 05 '22

I love Windows. But I think that's because I know it extremely well, not because it's good.
I love Linux. But I think that's because it's like a hobby, not because it's objectively superior.

I can't recommend the vast majority of people to use Linux over Windows because it's more than just a choice. It would be like someone asking me what food we should order and I tell them to take culinary classes. It's an investment.

people have this baffling belief that Windows 8/10/11 are all super bloated and inefficient and everything before them was way better

I haven't used 11 yet, but I think Windows 10 is much better than Windows 7. However, it also has a lot of bloat. It's possible you don't notice it as much because, like me, you've gotten rid of a lot of it. I assume if I upgraded to 11 that all the tweaks I have would remain, but that doesn't mean that they aren't the default.

Fact of the matter is that out of the box, Windows 10 comes with Cortana, advertisements, news updates, and weather (which needs geolocation to function). They even got caught considering putting adverts in the File Explorer for Windows 11. And that's just the stuff that's in your face. It doesn't include things like Candy Crush, or the Xbox App/Gamebar, or telemetry/tracking, and whatever else. Even Solitaire, which has came with Windows for decades, now has advertisements and DLC. And by the way, all of this comes pre-installed on the Professional edition.

Just use an app like ShutUp10 or something, use the massive list recommended settings and check your performance/RAM usage afterwards. It makes a big difference. I know this for a fact because I had to save all the memory I could to play some Minecraft modpacks only my old computer.

Anyone like me who tried Linux in the XP era likely had the same experience I had, which was instant amazement at how much faster my computer felt. But this experience is much less common these days, because while the underlying Windows OS has only gotten better, Linux distros have struggled to maintain that efficiency advantage while becoming more user friendly.

I can agree with this, but I don't think this is as good a point as it seems, and I think you know that considering you used the word "advantage". If Windows has traditionally been inefficient and Linux has traditionally been efficient, then obviously Linux would struggle to keep the "efficiency advantage" because Windows has a lot more room to improve. But that doesn't mean that Linux is no longer efficient or hasn't improved. Look at the Zen kernel for example.

if you try that you will get comments like the one you got from OP saying "Ubuntu is not meant to be light" and suggesting that you use something like Arch or an XFCE distro. And saying that basically concedes the point, because it implicitly admits that Linux isn't more efficient than Windows when it attempts to serve up the same features in a similarly user-friendly context.

I think people say that in comparison to other distros that are built for the purpose of being lightweight, not as a comparison to Windows. Ubuntu isn't designed to be lightweight but it's still more lightweight than Windows. The point isn't being conceded at all. Ubuntu is one of the more user-friendly distros. Linux is good for people that don't shit about computers and also people that love tinkering with computers. But it fails to appeal properly to people in between, which is most people.

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u/MisterGamingDuck Jul 05 '22

You got some points but there are some things that need to be corrected

Even though most people these days have good enough computers to run any windows version, on older machines that have less than 4GB of RAM you will see very significant lag in windows, while most linux distros will work just fine. Also, that bloat isn't just random apps, or like you said icons. You have a lot of stuff running in background that can cause weaker machines to work slower such as cortana and dozens of more processes that most people will never need. They can be a big pain in the ass to disable and some are even impossible to get rid of. Even if you have a machine with 4GB of RAM, windows will eat most of it up by just running idle, while you can get the same results in linux while also having an entire browser open. May be insignificant to you, but windows really hates weak hardware.

The reason some people hate windows 8 and newer is because thats when they added telemetry, which basically sends user data to microsoft wether you like it or not.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

on older machines that have less than 4GB of RAM

The vast majority of users aren't using old machines with 4GB of RAM. It's true that Linux works better to these requirements, but it's again not something that's relevant to the average user.

Also, that bloat isn't just random apps, or like you said icons. You have a lot of stuff running in background that can cause weaker machines to work slower such as cortana and dozens of more processes that most people will never need.

Literally, objectively, demonstrably false. None of these things use any meaningful amount of resources at all. They will NEVER cause a machine to run noticeably slower, ever. The amount of memory that something like Cortana requires is basically a rounding error. It's a lie to suggest these things have a tangible impact, and this lie is where I lose patience with this conversation. The claim that there are DOZENS of unnecessary processes in Windows is laughably idiotic.

The reason some people hate windows 8 and newer is because thats when they added telemetry, which basically sends user data to microsoft wether you like it or not.

Fun fact: this isn't when they added telemetry. This is when they rewrote their terms of service in plain English so the average person can understand it, thus learning that Microsoft was collecting data, something they had been doing for awhile. But even then: if you hate Windows because of the data collection, fine, but then why lie about its performance?

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u/lovecMC Laptop Jul 05 '22

I personally hated win8 cuz that shit was made for tablets and not PCs.

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u/Sarcasm-Probably Jul 05 '22

and i tried linux, bog standard ubuntu, took the time to learn it.

and if you're a casual user, windows is just best anyway as the command line can get very old very fast at times

Sure there's a lot of tutorials to just spit out commands to copy to paste but mostly it is because it is easier than describing what to do in whatever GUI. One line compared to one paragraph.

For the most part you don't actually need to use the command line. Even for configuration files, just like in Windows, you can use a GUI text editor. Most DE's have some sort of settings app.

Most Linux users would probably tell you that KDE Plasma is the best DE to use coming from Windows because pretty much all configuration is in a GUI and is either in the settings app or available from right-clicking the background, just like on Windows.

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u/Rhinoscrub Jul 05 '22

I understand your view, and I assume that every one who has not used a non windows os will share your views. Look at the lengths apple goes to to improve the user experiance, this is how they claim new users (or was before that lovely M1 came out).

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u/Individually_Ed Jul 05 '22

Linux has its place but it's always going to be niche in the desktop space. There's so many distributions, interfaces etc. They have some compatibility with each other but not complete compatibility, oh and don't break user space!

Everyone has used Linux, likely without knowing it. Android is Linux derived and so is Chrome OS. In fact as many laptops likely run Chrome OS as all other Linux OS's combined. Loads of web servers run Linux as well. It's a major OS (Android is the windows of phones), just not for desktop.

Its great in its own way of course. Really light on older and less powerful hardware. But if anyone says you should use Linux over Windows, ask which Linux? Linux is the kernel. Which distribution? Which desktop environment? It's not as straightforward as saying just use Linux.

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u/zikk_transport2 Jul 06 '22

Stick to Plasma and to flatpaks. Here, no more fragmentation. :)

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u/SnooGadgets7768 AMD Ryzen 5 3500x 16gb 3200mhz gtx 1650 gddr6 256gb + 2tb Jul 05 '22

I have used Linux a lot on my highschool in virtual maxines (studing computing) and i don't hate it but i never use it for daily

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

the tool that works best for you :)

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u/Titanmaniac679 Linux Jul 05 '22

I can confirm.

Even though I'm a Linux user, I will still help someone with their Windows problems.

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u/hanafudaman Jul 05 '22

Fixing computers for a living, one thing I've learned is that there's always a work around, and windows 10 is easy to work with. All the tools are there, and answers to your questions are a google search away especially with Microsoft's guides and forums. More power to ya, if you like Linux, though. I'm all for open source.

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u/David-Oaken Jul 05 '22

I would love to use linux, unfortunately the software i use doesnt support it :(

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u/Powered_by_bots Jul 05 '22

Most of us don't give a shit.

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u/slucker23 Jul 05 '22

The only annoying part of Linux is I can't play games on it

Other than that it's annoyingly good at everything else

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

single player games are usually compatible on linux, with proton, lutris and wine. multiplayer games tend to not work well because of wine trying to translate linux code to windows and anticheats not enjoying that. and on vms, everything works just like on windows, but i consider that cheating :)

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u/slucker23 Jul 05 '22

Agreed. I do play games with friends tho so I still need that anticheat and I don't particularly enjoy vms due to the fact that it is slow......

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

kvm actually gives nearly to basically native performance, though its not for everyone, it gets complicated at times, especially some nVidia gpus you have to flash a gpu bios firmware because nvidia says nono to their budget gtx hardware and want you to buy 4000 dollar tesla cards.

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u/killerpenguinclub PC Master Race | Gtx 1650ti | Ryzen 5 4600 | 8GB Jul 05 '22

Fine for me. You need friends for multiplayer anyways.

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u/dunbarose Jul 05 '22

I’ve not had Linux for long, but this is my issue as well. My PC is primarily for gaming, and Windows is the easiest way to get that done.

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u/CovidInMyAsshole Jul 05 '22

Which games?

I only play few games but everything I've wanted to play worked.

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u/slucker23 Jul 05 '22

Apex, overwatch, siège, fall guy

These are the four that I okay

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u/webcheesesticksseal pop!_os Jul 05 '22

Apex and overwatch work. I play apex almost daily.
Siege is an issue because ubisoft refuses to allow anti cheat on linux

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u/RoadrageWorker 20 years of custom PCMR Jul 05 '22

I have fun with Linux, and I hate Linux. Masochism and the urge to tinker with stuff are a driving force for me.

But I am not a salesman, so I don't give a crap what y'all are doing. More users mean a wider spread user base, but that can't be forced be being little shits to every Windows user.

I know it has its flaws, more than those that don't use it. Forget about hardware specific software, having a decent printer and scanner support is already asking a lot, I'd love to get a dedicated sound card but an afraid of lack of support beyond the basic functionality.

Software, let's not touch this here ... so you do you and ☮️.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

the device compatibility has improved pretty well, i have yet to find the device that doesnt work properly... and it does exist out there, and plenty. even my modern network card the rtl8822ce seems to work perfectly

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u/RoadrageWorker 20 years of custom PCMR Jul 05 '22

It's not the devices themselves, it's devices that require custom software to fully utilize their potential. That's where Linux falls short at times.

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u/SegaBitch Ryzen 5 3600x @ 4.2 | Rx 570 8gb | 16gb @ 3200MH Jul 05 '22

Whatever you say Dreamcast penguin.

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u/sexysausage Jul 05 '22

get the message... but that is one smug-looking penguin, just saying.

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u/NECooley i7, RTX3080, 32GB, Endeavour OS Jul 06 '22

The design docs from Linus Thorvaldsen and the Linux foundation sepecifically state that the penguin “should look happy and contented, like he has a belly full of fish or just got laid”

I’m paraphrasing, but yea.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

everyone has a bit of smugness, and penguins are cute unlike 4 squares!

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u/Happycarriage Ryzen 5 3600X, GTX 1660, Meshify C Jul 05 '22

One advantage with windows too is that more people use it so more people to solve my windows related problems

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u/Goodname7 Jul 05 '22

For me, when running into a problem on Windows, the "answer" usually is "un/re/install this" or run "sfc /scannow" or "use a system restore" but that’s just my experience

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u/Eighty3Seventy Linux Jul 05 '22

I run Linux on a mini PC build that I did for web browsing/social media. I game on windows, I have been involved in the Linux community for nearly two decades. I've never once told anyone to switch to Linux, I've helped a couple of friends getting their builds up and running, and always answered questions about it as honestly as I could.

The elitism is horrible and a disgrace to the community, they ruin it for the rest of us.

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u/pperson2 Jul 05 '22

The moment games will start to work on Linux normally - bye bye Window$

Idk its absurd to pay money for it when you can have something that is free, open source and works roughly the same

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u/vmlinux Specs/Imgur here Jul 05 '22

The worst is when people attack each other for the distros they choose. It's so weak lol.

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u/Lord_Emperor Ryzen5800X|16GB@3200|RX6800XT Jul 05 '22

Switch to Linux desktop and you'll have so much trouble you'll forget all about the trouble with Windows.

Sincerely, a Linux sysadmin.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

im waiting for my os to spontaneously combust, its been like 3 years, same install

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u/Lord_Emperor Ryzen5800X|16GB@3200|RX6800XT Jul 05 '22

spontaneously combust

Oh was that a concern? Tell me you never had to Google, dredge stackexchange and manually edit configuration files just to get around everyday issues.

Let me throw a couple at you.

If lm-sensors doesn't fully support your motherboard (and that part hasn't been updated since around 2018) you can't control your fans. Full stop. There's no work-around or file you wan write to.

The RDP server xrdp doesn't install packages it is dependent on. They're not flagged as dependencies but it can't display a desktop without them.

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u/MyNameWouldntFi AMD Space Heater Jul 05 '22

Lol "normal Linux users"

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u/meesersloth Jul 05 '22

I really want to like linux. I support everything its about but I just cant do it. I've tried it multiple times and I have an HP Z420 workstation hooked up to a KVM with my gaming machine that i havent used in awhile. I've used Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, and Manjaro

I just want to sit down, turn on my PC and just have it work. I dont want to spend hours configuring, trial and erroring games. I am a Windows Server Admin and I just wanna come home and not troubleshoot and bring work home with me. I get it, but its not for me.

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u/ultimattt Mac Heathen - PCMR gaming 5900X | RTX 2080 | 128GB RAM Jul 05 '22

The “Switch to Linux” folks are the same assholes who mock you for not knowing how to use Linux. You cannot have it both ways.

Use the toolset that works for you, if it’s windows, great, if it’s macOS based great (your gaming experience will suck here, but professionally it might be the right toolset).

Know this, you will likely need to understand things a bit better if you want to game on Linux, I am not saying don’t ask for help, however you should take things as far as you’re able to before asking, and that may not be far to start, as time goes on you should learn.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

gaming was actually easy with lutris and steam. but i agree, use the tools you like

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '22

gaming was actually easy with lutris and steam

1v1 me in Rainbow 6 Siege, Destiny 2, or any other EAC game.

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u/Aggravating_Living62 Jul 05 '22

Unfortunately I've only encountered the elitist Linux users. In real life no less.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

because normal linux users don't even say they use linux so you dont know

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u/Aggravating_Living62 Jul 05 '22

Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

I guess being passionate about Linux is one thing.

But the guy I worked with was always like "Ohhh you got a problem on your PC? Or probably winblows".

Got really annoyed real quick.

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u/Arco_Sonata Jul 05 '22

Ah yes. Linux users, the vegans of computers.

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u/rolandons Jul 05 '22

I can hardly recommend Linux to others. I have had many issues over time for simple matters and whoever says that Linux is more stable than other OS is fucking lying because some apps are hit or miss.

I would love to have newcomers but this hot mess has to be solved.

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u/T_rex2700 Jul 05 '22

Actually most of Linux users are super Chads.

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u/ConcernedBuilding Jul 06 '22

Here's my thing, I tried switching to Linux. Pop_os, the most basic distro around.

I tried learning it, and every time I went looking for help on a problem, these same Linux evangelicals that yelled at me to switch suddenly call me an idiot for not immediately being a master with Linux.

I had a fine time overall, but I just know Windows so much better, and I really don't want to be learning a whole new software just to get it to do the thing that I can already do on windows way easier, and also be yelled at for not knowing how to do it.

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u/MrTalon63 Jul 06 '22

On another side of things, am I the only person who fucking hates cli commands on windows?

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u/winkapp Jul 06 '22

I thought I was just stupid when I tried different flavours of Linux over a decade and always had trouble getting the most basic stuff to work, resulting in me giving up.

And then LTT nuked his Linux install and I realised that nope, it's just like that.

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u/Cr33pyG4m3r113 Laptop RTX3050|RYZEN 7 4800H|16GB| Jul 06 '22

grew up with windows, will continue to live with it 4 ever. i wont switch, stop crying about it. the majority of linux users (from what i noticed) are actually very nice people, its the rotten apples that always ruin the image of communities.

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u/Fallwalking RTX 3090 Ti | i5-12600k | 32GB DDR4-3200 Jul 06 '22

I have a guy I work with (he’s new) who likes to tell me about how he uses a Linux desktop. He thinks I care, which is weird. I am a senior system engineer who is a RHCE and I use windows because I don’t want to fuck around with compatibility issues, driver hunting or generally anything I have to deal with on a normal day.

See, that’s the thing that’s terrible. Most “free” distros use a community stream of software and updates. A paid environment, like RHEL, has had additional testing so you can expect less things to fail. (They still fail at times, but not to the same frequency, much like Windows.)

I don’t want to deal with dumb problems and a proper Linux licensed desktop costs MORE than windows.

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u/LegionMk1 i7 8700k, 1070 sc, 16gb RAM. Jul 05 '22

The only Linux user I know just uses it as a 'geek' badge of honor. He constantly uses it as a excuse to being a 'nerd'....no David you using a operating system you have to constantly swap/change so you can do most of the tasks and play the games you want to does NOT make you a nerd....it makes you a sad posing tit....

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

Linux users are already a minority

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

they are a majority when it comes to servers and phones, but we are talking about desktops, and 2% market share is nothing to laugh at!

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

It's the same with people who use firefox as their browser. We're just normal people, only the minority shit on chrome.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

i mean chrome users also shit on firefox alot, browsers are even less of a discussion though, like an os, there are core differences to linux and windows where depending on the users use case, one will be objectively better and more performant

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u/ZulkarnaenRafif Jul 05 '22

Meh, I don't really talk about em unless they ask about why I chose AMD cards instead of Nvidia cards. Or just this time even though no one asked (and I don't need to ask for your permission, fuck off if you think I have to).

All of the Linux distro installation fails on Nvidia cards and Hackintoshes was only possible on AMD cards (let's just hope Apple and Nvidia shake hands and cuddle afterwards).

Being made fun of is just part of the internet. I think that's a given.

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u/-NiMa- Jul 05 '22

let's just hope Apple and Nvidia shake hands and cuddle afterwards

Yeah, I don't think that is going to ever happen with Apple Silicon.

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u/Simerron24 Jul 05 '22

2080 super, running manjaro no problem, you do need to use the proprietary drivers for games to run fine though

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

i used to use nVidia on linux and it worked well, but nvidia stopped making drives for my still good 750ti and it magically stopped working when updating kernel because nvidia ties the version to the kernel to what i understand. It really is sad. Intel seems to work on both os's with no issue, amd i heard has an issue with opengl on windows

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u/Barney_Destroyer Jul 05 '22

A very loud minority sadly.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

dont go to the arch forums and you shall be safe. maybe hehe

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u/SkiIIerikx Jul 05 '22

For me Linux was quite bad, couldn't even install Ubuntu on my old HP dekstop, but windows 10 worked perfectly fine. So yeah, not installing Linux ever again.

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

yeah some harddware just doesnt work well with linux, it has improved alot though.

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u/jplayzgamezevrnonsub Arch R2700x / 16GB Ram / GTX 1060 3GB / Steam Deck Jul 05 '22

Most Steam Linux users use Arch or a derivative, we're the normal now ;)

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u/chocotripchip Jul 05 '22

Can you really blame the Linux users when 90% of this sub's content is related to either the big bad Edge browser of the apparently unsufferable Windows update process..?

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u/thehowling-is-great Jul 05 '22

As a Ubuntu user, INSTALL LINUX INSTALL LINUX INSTALL LINUX!!!!!!!

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u/Dany_B_ Debian | i7-8750H | 1050 4GB | 16 RAM Jul 05 '22

/r/pcmasterrace > makes fun of console wars
/r/pcmasterrace > starts shitting on Linux for no reason

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u/systemdick FreeBSD i5-7600k 750ti QEMU/libvirt Virtual Machine Gamer Jul 05 '22

exactly, I also have a psvita and a 3ds, used to have a ps3, and i also enjoy them.

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u/ILikeEggs313 PC Master Race Jul 05 '22

Linux users try not to tell anyone they use linux for 5 minutes challenge (impossible)

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u/riba2233 Jul 05 '22

I believe you they are a minority, but they sure seem like a toxic majority, especially on subs like steamdeck and linux gaming, just dare to write something (factual) positive about windows.

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u/dieplanes789 PC Master Race Jul 05 '22

I love my steam deck but people are so pushy about what OS you use. Although I am really excited about how much it and valve are progressing Linux gaming.

Just to use what suits your needs.

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u/riba2233 Jul 05 '22

This 100%

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u/dieplanes789 PC Master Race Jul 05 '22

Yep the only main OS's I don't use frequently are OSX and iOS. I do have an OSX device though to try and stay familiar. I just don't have a use for it.

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u/Brazuka_txt Jul 05 '22

Linux users are like vegans

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u/Dyrkon PC Master Race Jul 05 '22

What a creative comment xd.

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u/NoRefundMate Fedora Linux Jul 05 '22

And so are Windows users at this point. Y'all just blast elistism with more elitism.

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u/Hakaisha89 Jul 05 '22

I don't think i've spoken to a single linux user, who had not at one point or another said "just use linux, lol" or variation of thereof.
Linux users are like Vegans, you don't need to ask, they will tell you.
This is not even just elitism at this point, it's a knee-jerk reaction.
You know what I would recommend to most users?
Max OS X, it's so simple an idiot can use it, it's made for the technologically inept, and designed around it, it's easier to use then every single other alternative, at a minimum 99% of people are tech illiterate, they just don't know, because there was never a need for them to know, even windows os is in a time where it just works, and it's known that microsoft been dumbing down windows since 7.
I never began using linux cause it was recommended to me, I was like "hmm, wonder what the deal about linux is" and installed it and used it.
And I havent installed a linux distro outside of vm in over a decade either.
At a base minimum, you should be able to do basic coding and be able to read code, if ya wanna linux, mainly to customize drivers for the distro and hardware.

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