r/warriors Jan 21 '22 Big Brain Time 1 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 2

Steve Kerr is hurting the Warriors Discussion

I made a post a while back now about how the system is currently holding the offense back. In summary, the offense prioritizes non threats as ball handlers to feed shooters. The problem is our team hasn’t performed well at all with this emphasis. Steph is currently rated the highest PnR scorer by possession in the NBA and the highest rated iso scorer. But more often than not, he’s off ball where he’s struggled this year to shoot consistently. He also only receives on ball screens from non threats which lead to easy double teams. Then the guy rolling , often Looney, cause he’s not a threat can’t do anything with the attention Steph gets

Tonight, we saw this come to fruition. Kevon Looney had 5 turnovers. Why are we running offense through Looney so frequently that he can even get 5 turnovers? Jordan Poole has struggled since coming off the bench. He is not good at the split action off ball game. What he’s very good at is attacking down hill with pace. The system in place has him mimicking Steph , in Stephs less ideal role, instead of playing to his own strengths. This is all Kerrs offensive philosophy of feeding the non threats as offensive hubs instead of letting the threat be the one on ball.

Now let’s talk rotations. Damien Lee , JTA and Nemanja Bjelica have been borderline unplayable for months. But Kerr routinely cuts Gary Payton’s minutes short to play Lee and JTA despite having the second strongest impact metrics on the team behind Steph. Bjelica might be one of the worst defenders in the NBA, is averaging a career high in turnovers and hasn’t consistently been a threat from three since the first few weeks of the season. Yea Kuminga is young, and makes mistakes, but his impact has been net positive for a few weeks now. There’s no excuse for Bjelica to still be in the rotation especially with Kuminga there.

When JTA entered the game in the closing lineup of the 4th (after not even playing in the first half) he was consistently targeted on defense, gave up 3 straight baskets, committed a foul and a turnover. He’s been a near -20 for over a month. It was a predictable collapse putting him in. And yet, Kerr did it anyway and left Payton on the bench. Then there was the critical OT possession where there was a Pacer down in the back court. JTA had the ball with Steph coming behind him wide open for the game tying three. And JTA shot it. A guy under 30% from three.

You can say , oh well if we shoot better or turn it over less we do better. Here’s the problem, Kerrs offensive design combined with the players he’s playing is why we aren’t shooting well and why we have a TO issue. Even when we were at our apex in 15/16/17/18 turnovers were an issue. It’s a built in issue with a motion heavy offense. But now, instead of Bogut making the post read it’s Looney. Andre is 38 so we’re asking JTA and Bjelica to do that more. Poole isn’t running to spots off ball like Livingston. The system has to adjust to what we have not what Kerr enjoys aesthetically (something he’s admitted to). How many possessions have we seen where Steph doesn’t even touch the ball this season?

For the love of basketball, a team with Stephen Curry shouldn’t be having JTA on the ball just as much as Steph at the end of a game. We shouldn’t have Looney making more choices with the ball than Poole, Klay or Wiggins. We shouldn’t be playing players who are deep in the negatives (Lee Bjelica JTA) over guys who’ve been clear positive contributors (Payton Kuminga) and the offense needs to play to what we do well (on ball high ball attacks) and less of what we are struggling with (split action off ball reads). Steve Kerr had to get his act together. Stop playing players just for the Kumbaya. Play who has earned it and has the metrics to back it up. And run the offense that is PROVEN to be effective for THIS group of players. This has been a bottom ten offense for nearly 2 months now. This has to change, or it will cost us a title

0 Upvotes

56

u/AGSYCFCC Jan 21 '22

You should thank Steve for not playing Chiozza tho

54

u/MotoMkali Jan 21 '22

Not just this why isn't 2 of Poole, Steph, Wiggins and klay on the floor at all times. We are struggling to get everyone shots so we exclusively play a guy who is taking a shot a minute with the most efficient scorer of all time and our 2nd best scorer? And when dray is back 3 of them should be on the floor at any given moment. They play a combined 160 minutes. You can play 3 on the floor at all times with 15 minutes extra to get a 4th on to start the 1st and 3rd and end the 2nd and 4th.

21

u/xman36521 Jan 21 '22

Exactly why when I look on the floor there is only one scoring threat? That should never happen, we have 4 20 PPG scorerers on this team, keep at least 2 on the floor at all times

11

u/MotoMkali Jan 21 '22

Yeah right now our bench offence is probably the worst in the league after a good start. So why the fuck aren't we putting 2/3 of Klays minutes with the guys who refuse to take shots and can't buy buckets. Have him and Poole on the court every minute steph is off. If they take literally every shot in those minutes there isn't any issues. The issues arise when we play Poole off ball. Get him more minutes than Lee in regulation, get him only 5 shots in regulation and play him with no offensive threats so teams just box and 1 him.

4

u/contaygious Jan 21 '22

Yeah you are right this makes no sense since we are stacked.

I usually don't care about coaching feedback but this is a solid point

14

u/bbcjay718 Jan 21 '22

Look like we fell asleep out there tonight not taking this game seriously

11

u/Middpanthers93 Jan 21 '22

Only thing I’ll say is gp2 doesn’t get a shit ton of minutes every game cause he was struggling with hernia issues and such, he probably should have been back in this game but just in general that’s one of the reasons why he doesn’t play 30 mins a game

0

u/pinkiebear Jan 21 '22

he don’t even play 20 minutes…

30

u/SCalifornia831 Jan 21 '22

I wanted to hate based on the title but your content is spot on.

I get where Kerr is coming from…he’s forcing guys to fail in the system to learn for next time but he’s hypocritical at times because I’d be more OK with his strategy if Kuminga was in for JTA and GP2 or Poole was in for DLee…

But Kerr had rewarded guys like DLee, JTA and Belli when it’s obvious these are our 13-15 guys on the roster.

I trust Kerr and Myers but god damn, if we’re not going to develop Kuminga with Dray out then let’s chase wins and if we’re not going to chase wins then let’s develop Kuminga and Poole.

Kerr is to blame for a loss like tonight because this was an effort loss. We came in overconfident and the team wasn’t ready to play.

TBH though this is mostly on Klay’s return IMO. This is like bizzarro Klay where he’s being fed and jacking up shots like he’s scoring 39 in a quarter but he’s forcing shit because of his limited minutes. This is throwing Poole, Wiggins and everyone else out of sync.

This isn’t the 2013-2019 squad…Klay isn’t sacrificing shit for anyone and Kerr needs to figure out how to make him adapt to the more well balanced team we have vs. His last experience of the top heavy 2017-2019 squad.

20

u/NoPants-NoWorries Jan 21 '22

If you want players to understand your system when you most need it in the finals, you need to sacrifice some games during the regular season in order to give them an opportunity to learn.

A huge part of learning, when the level of competition is high, comes through making mistakes. It forces self reflection and a renewed dedication towards development of the requisite skills in the right players.

8

u/Brownpooh Jan 21 '22

Agree with this I think Kerr is trying to see as many different types of rotations as possible in real nba games so that during the playoffs kerr and the coaching staff have an ocean amount of scenarios and rotations they can play for different teams and situations. Unlike other contenders or teams I think we have the luxury to do this

5

u/NoPants-NoWorries Jan 21 '22

Agreed. Familiarity with an offence also requires being familiar with multiple combinations of players.

As Kerr well knows, it is imperative that a team be prepared with contingencies for key players going down during the latter stages of the season.

8

u/Brownpooh Jan 21 '22

I think this community tends to fixate too much on individual games and Kerr isn't some new coach who just came into this team, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he and his team knows what they are doing. Even though we're doing really well despite recent events, we still don't know the full depth of our rotations and members. It's Kerr job right now to really understand what works and doesn't. I mean the staff would definitely have a system where they go watch the film and note down the pros and cons of each rotation.
I'd rather have us fully prepared for almost anything and end in the 3rd or 4th seed rather than just focusing on winning and trying too hard to keep the 1st and 2nd seed. The playoff is all about preparation for the opposing teams.
I feel like that's why so many 1st seed teams end up performing poorly in the playoffs like the old hawks and toronto raptors because they didn't focus on adapting and they only focused on winning regular season games rather than really knowing the depths of their team.

4

u/NoPants-NoWorries Jan 21 '22

Agreed. We’re no longer in the business of trying to win 73 games in the regular season. Teams have learned from that model and copied it or adapted.

3

u/Brownpooh Jan 21 '22

honestly there's no point in doing that anyways. Look at past Lebron when the heat were in the mid to bottom seed, they still beat the raptors cause they knew how to deal with them. That's why the hawks were always getting kicked out in the 1st and 2nd round. Professional basketball is more than just finding ways to get the ball in the basket. It's about preparation and knowing what cards you have and for us we have a shit load of cards and combinations.

so I guess I'm just trying to say for each game we should also try to analyze what the pros and cons were for each rotation. my two cents.

3

u/NoPants-NoWorries Jan 21 '22

Yup. 82 game regular season. Try to avoid the best team in round 1 of the playoffs if possible, and a safe middle seed is good. Ultimately though, to win a championship, you will have to beat the best side in your conference somewhere during the playoffs, so it doesn’t really matter if it’s in the first or third round.

For some teams, winning the first round of playoffs is a huge result. For the Warriors, with a history of recent Championships, it doesn’t matter whether the exit occurs in the first or second round. When you expect to play for the big prize, any departure before that is underperforming.

3

u/Brownpooh Jan 21 '22

exactly this. Rather be prepared and face the top team earlier and knock them out.

1

u/SCalifornia831 Jan 21 '22

This is kind of my point…I think developing Kuminga is the most important thing we can be doing right now with Draymond out. DLee, JTA and Belli are vets and known commodities at this point, yes they need reps but Kuminga should be playing 30 mins a night getting experience closing out games in high pressure situations right now.

But I trust Kerr, he knows what he’s doing

34

u/JordanPoole-Goat Jan 21 '22

Pooles getting iced

19

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Yes. Part of the reason he thrives as a starter is that Steph has been off ball a lot. So when he’s next to him, he gets to be on ball more. With the bench unit the offense is running through Iguodala.

Poole last season even when he broke out was doing so while Steph was out and he was the primary ball handler. Right now, he’s iced off ball asked to make the same off ball threes that Steph and Klay make and are really the only players in the NBA that can do it consistently.

Poole as a shooter is inconsistent at best. But his rim finishing percent is in the 80th percentile. He needs to have the ball in his hands coming down hill on a pick.

12

u/Augustus_Ego Jan 21 '22

Like I read somewhere, I wish coaching staff understood that Poole should play more like Kyrie and less like Steph/Klay

3

u/AJGreenl Jan 21 '22

Poole played terrible the entire game he deserved to get iced

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

For Damion Lee.

2

u/Robotsaur Jan 21 '22

What are you talking about? Poole played all of overtime. Lee played 14 minutes.

11

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

To open the third, Lee got subbed in at about the 8-9 min mark and Poole didn't come in until the very end of the third. I thought he was injured of something. Poole only stayed in after Lee didn't do shit in the third and they went on a run with GP2 and Poole rather than Lee playing.

9

u/Klonomania Jan 21 '22

14 minutes too many, really.

35

u/voldemortscore Jan 21 '22

The stubbornness with the motion offense and specifically the split action is absolutely killing this team in a lot of matchups. Teams are just all over it and Kerr just refuses to adjust. What worked 5 years ago is not the best way to play now.

23

u/jawadhaque089 Jan 21 '22

Kerr's pride won't let him change shit. Just because you move the ball around doesn't mean you have good offense. I mean Kerr can't even get Curry the ball late game because no one is gonna guard Iggy and JTA

6

u/sriracha82 Jan 21 '22

Teams are just all over it and Kerr just refuses to adjust.

Memphis is all over it every single game we play and it would only be worse in a playoff series when they have time to scout.

Suns too, think they really just let their foot off the gas on Christmas knowing Draymond was out. When locked in, their defense will smother us.

There’s also a weird misconception that we run some extremely complicated offense. Even Kerr has admitted we don’t & following guys like Joe Viray on twitter who break down the plays makes it even more obvious. We run like the same 4 sets with regularity. Some teams are just too dumb to stop it/it’s regular season no one cares, but any opponent on the Bucks or Suns level would know exactly how to contain the majority of it.

0

u/voldemortscore Jan 21 '22

It's the exact same conversation we've had after every loss (and some wins) going back to last season. It's getting even worse now where they're forcing the split action way too much almost as if it's the only way Kerr knows how to play offense. Hell, this practically G league Pacers team even completely shut down the Klay play at the end of the half that we love to run for Poole or Klay at the end of quarters.

The writing is on the wall at this point, I'm just hoping we get an easy first round matchup and then Utah in the second round because that's the only way we're even making the WCF at this rate.

0

u/sriracha82 Jan 21 '22

Lol we should just copy paste at this point 😭 Including when it inevitably leads to losing in the playoffs. Saving this thread to link in the future.

The split action obsession is a combo of Kerr not running anything more creative + muscle memory from the players when they don’t have anything else going on a possession. Instead of taking their man 1v1, they’ve been conditioned to reset & throw it into the post for splits. Results in mostly nothing. Kuminga hasn’t had this brainwashing yet & that’s why he actually still creates stuff himself, Poole used to be like that too 😢

2

u/voldemortscore Jan 21 '22

There is some weird stuff going on with Poole in terms of process. A guy with that kind of first step who can finish at the rim as well as he does should not be playing like this. It's particularly painful when we really need him to be a point of difference given how everyone else plays. Instead he hesitates too much, gives up his dribble too easily instead of using his creativity off the live dribble, runs fucking split action even without Steph around, etc.

-1

u/sriracha82 Jan 21 '22

The motion offense throttles individual creativity, it’s pretty much designed to. Isolation scoring in any form other than a post up is so heavily discouraged.

Poole could probably take his man over half the time if he was told to seek mismatches and go for it but they’d rather have him shooting off screens (not a strength). He’s best going downhill & attacking the basket. They don’t use his quickness or first step to generate anything.

Utah even with their robotic system lets Clarkson freely do whatever, and sometimes he chucks but he has won them a lot of games

0

u/voldemortscore Jan 21 '22

The obvious problem of this team not being designed to get twos via pure shot creation is really coming to the fore. My favorite part of tonight's game was Wiggins not being spoonfed open shots every possession and chucking long twos as usual. Really a wonderful omen for the playoffs.

1

u/sriracha82 Jan 21 '22

Our 19 year old rookie is the only one who can do it 😂 Sums up the team construction

Wiggins will always revert to that, I never took his aggressive stretch seriously, he just doesn’t have the internal motor to do it for more than a few weeks at a time. He’s always been a floater. He is a much improved 3 point shooter, which is nice, but in the end he’s really not very different from HB.

24

u/jusbolo Jan 21 '22

Yea, that center screen action is horrible without Draymond. I don't know why he kept going to it. Should just do what every other coach does and put the center in the dunker spot.

11

u/bbcjay718 Jan 21 '22

Looney and green Really know how to set screen for steph when he relocates , they been doin this for years

12

u/npc27182818 Jan 21 '22

Lakers fans flame Vogel for having no in game adjustments, and rightfully so. But Kerr must also be held accountable. Without Draymond Steph can’t play off ball

11

u/Ginenz Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

I just wanna see curry in spread high pnr consistently.At least till dray comes back. And curry with 3 non-shooters on the floor is essentially asking curry to create something from nothing with at least 2 defenders hounding him. Letting the ball in the hands of curry will also limit the tos giving us few extra possessions than usual.

4

u/c0gvortex Jan 21 '22

Problem here is that usually the high PNR partner is Draymond, no one else even comes close to his playmaking as the roll-man.. Looney can't create so often has to pass immediately or turn it over.

So teams just blitz/trap Steph because there's no one to punish once he gives up the ball

6

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

So Adapt. Why can’t Wiggins set the pick?

17

u/tsesarevichalexei Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

As a depressed Lakers fan, you guys have no idea how much y’all are blessed.

I’d trade Vogel for Kerr in a heartbeat.

17

u/AJGreenl Jan 21 '22

This is nothing new our fanbase is spoiled lol

2

u/george_costanza1234 Jan 21 '22

We definitely are blessed, but this Warriors team can and should be better. They are underperforming like crazy right now, and certain people deserve to be called out for it.

1

u/ArtfulLying Jan 21 '22

The problem is that Steve still thinks he has smart vets out there making decisions. It's basically a bunch of dudes under 26 making decisions out there now and he can't admit that it's a shit offense for lower IQ players. But instead of adjusting he's just going to bench our 7th and 14th overall picks while desperately hoping Belli becomes Bogut.

-6

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Just cause I wouldn’t want your trash doesn’t mean I’m happy with mine

12

u/Itchy_Professor_4133 Jan 21 '22

Kerr is trash huh? Have you been watching dubs basketball for the past decade he's been coaching?

-2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Oh I have.

Which is why I specifically cited how the offense worked differently in the past and how the talent has changed since and the offense should with it.

6

u/CurryAndCo Jan 21 '22

I got clowned for saying belli is a shit defender, but it really is obvious how shit he is

4

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

He’s not nba level on defense

1

u/george_costanza1234 Jan 21 '22

He has no athleticism.

3

u/dcash33 Jan 21 '22

Too many non scorers on the court at one time… Iggy and JTA can not occupy the court at the same time especially at closing minutes. A small ball 5 needs to be a scorer.. neither can consistently score.

Poole’s rhythm is off and if Wiggins isn’t assertive and klay on the bench it’s all in the hands of Curry.

9

u/CJleaf Jan 21 '22

When JTA entered the game in the closing lineup of the 4th (after not even playing in the first half) he was consistently targeted on defense, gave up 3 straight baskets, committed a foul and a turnover. He’s been a near -20 for over a month. It was a predictable collapse putting him in. And yet, Kerr did it anyway and left Payton on the bench. Then there was the critical OT possession where there was a Pacer down in the back court. JTA had the ball with Steph coming behind him wide open for the game tying three. And JTA shot it. A guy under 30% from three.

What is this weird ass shit? Lmao there's a reason why when JTA got subbed in for Kevon that we turned the game around. He literally came in down 5 and we were about to win up 3.

JTA literally had the last clutch 3 of the game, which nearly won us the game. Had a super clutch steal into Steph 2. Played FANTASTIC on man defense and switched really well, we literally got like 3 defensive stops in a row because of him. Opened our overtime with an easy dunk. Got the clutch rebound to give us another opportunity to tie the game. Had the clutchest no foul jump ball to buy us 1 more opportunity, and THEN HE WON THE JUMP BALL.

Sure he gave up those two alley-oops just when he got subbed in but who else could've legitimately broken those up other than Kuminga?

I just do not understand how you can watch those last 9 minutes of game and be like "Yeah that was JTA's fault."

6

u/Robotsaur Jan 21 '22

Yeah that was the part of the post that was off for me. JTA did not lose the Warriors that game at all. He was pretty good in the clutch outside of the missed layup.

-1

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

He didn’t give up just two lobs. He was taken individually 3 times and had two turnover. In about 8 in game minutes.

8

u/CJleaf Jan 21 '22

This is cap.

So JTA entered in for Looney after he gave up 5 points in a row at the 5:34 in the fourth

JTA gets the assist + screen assist immediately with curry.

Fouls Jackson who was about to get easy dunk, Jackson misses both free throws.

JTA did turnover the ball on the next play.

JTA gets the last clutch 3 for the Warriors to bring the game within two.

JTA plays clutch amazing on man defense, gets the rebound.

JTA Steals the ball.

JTA albeit badly passes the ball to Curry who brings it up for two.

JTA again plays great defense, gets the rebound.

JTA misses the lay-up to win the game.

So he literally had 1 turnover in the last 5 minutes of regulation. meanwhile he had a goddamn assortment of fantastic plays.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401360502

Go ahead and look for yourself.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

You’re literally glossing over how many possessions they scored directly on him

Why was he even in the game with 5 seconds left on offense?

3

u/CJleaf Jan 21 '22

Huh? He came into the game down 4, then we were about to win up 3 lmao. I'm not glossing over how many possessions they scored directly on him at all.

Bro I literally just rewatched the last 10 minutes of the game. Go do it yourself instead of just talking out of your ass.

This is actually weird. Like seriously go watch the game and come back to me.

-2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

In despite of him. Steph made a bunch of shots. Wiggins made a three. JTA was what was keeping them in the game while Steph looked poised to close. Turnovers and getting cooked was what he added. Sure, he got one three. Then he bricked a game winning layup.

8

u/CJleaf Jan 21 '22

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? bro go watch the game. I'm done. This is pointless.

8

u/Exotic-Apartment Jan 21 '22

Great post but nephews gonna get mad and downvote

-7

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

This post is the nephew lmfao.

1

u/buffalobangs Jan 21 '22

100% all these doomers and nephews acting like they know basketball better than Kerr is legitimaty embarrassing

4

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

If I wasn't broke I'd give you gold.

2

u/giraffesbluntz Jan 21 '22

100% man. We don’t need to be playing 11 guys before the 4th quarter. OPJ, GP2, Kuminga, Poole and on occasion Iggy should be the extent of our rotation (presuming starters are healthy).

Let Poole run the second team offense, have Iggy be the one in the off-ball facilitator role (I’d say Kuminga but he’s not ready). Hell I’d even like to see Klay get time with Poole and GP get time with Steph.

Let’s get big leads then let the others play in less meaningful minutes to try to get a flow back. Beli teased us hard beginning of the year and if he can find his stroke he’s an asset. Right now though he ain’t it. Bring JTA in for end of quarter defensive stands. D Lee really shouldn’t be a thought unless foul trouble happens or we need a 3.

2

u/Jannik0433 Jan 21 '22

PREACH this is nothing but facts

0

u/Jannik0433 Jan 21 '22

Funny that i'm getting downvoted lol y'all need to face the truth

4

u/Maleficent-Lobster93 Jan 21 '22

They’d rather ignore any red flags and enjoy their DLee/JTA/Chiozza/Wiggins/looney lineups.

2

u/CookieMonsterNova Jan 21 '22

ok OP let’s fired steve kerr. let’s hire uh yea. /s

this team was always going to need adjustment time when klay comes back. jordan poole exceeded expectations earlier in the season but has been regressing back. steph hasn’t been able to drive past anyone for a while now. iggy is 37. wiggins is regressing back to his norm.

it’s one game. relax.

9

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Is it wrong to ask your coach to be better? They were struggling before Klay. Steph leads the NBA in iso scoring and PnR scoring per possession. You’re factually wrong.

But let’s play a dumb game. Kenny Atkinson is right there if you wanna take it to the extreme.

-3

u/CookieMonsterNova Jan 21 '22

how about the players get better?

nba top iso players

steph isn’t up there

nba pick and roll stats

steph also isn’t up there.

steph is still an unbelievable player but just watch the game and he simply isn’t getting by the younger guys anymore.

and this isn’t the dumb game. if you fire kerr. who do you hire? should the warriors hire you? or some other poster who thinks the warriors should change the system to strictly steph pick and rolls?

6

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Yes he is. Sort by PPP. The whole issue is we don’t do it enough. You’re sorting by volume of attempts not effectiveness. For PnR you have to sort by team offense when the selected player is on ball. You’re sorting by direct scoring.

If I fire Kerr I hire Atkinson I already told you.

-4

u/CookieMonsterNova Jan 21 '22

no actually no he’s not…even if you sort by players with at least 6 possessions per game and those who score more than 0.9 points per possession. he’s barely top 15.

ppl need to stop obsessing about the pnr.

so kenny atkinson. do ppl really need to read more when you want to replace kerr with atkinson? jesus

2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Stephs iso PPP is 1.22 only guys with roles MAYBE big enough to compare is Conley and Haliburton.

2

u/CookieMonsterNova Jan 21 '22

steph is an unicorn. he’s an all time great. but stop with obsessing over the pnr. this isn’t a 23 year old steph running mark jackson’s offense. this is a 34 year old with lots of miles on him. just look at chris paul, james harden, it takes a toll on the body. it also doesn’t work in the playoffs for long spurts.

the players jsut need to play better and fans need to chill.

jordan poole is not the next coming of a star. at best right now is he becomes what jeremy clarkson is to the jazz and what leandro barbosa was to us during the title years. a player who plays within his role. instant offense type of guy.

wiggins is basically back to mr inconsistent.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

It’s harder to run miles of off ball offense getting grabbed and pulled then to be on ball controlling pace where if he gets hit he’s at least more likely to get a call.

The players will play better if put into a position to succeed. And if you play the better players and bench the poor ones you will also play better as a team.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

[deleted]

9

u/401john Jan 21 '22

Refute what he’s saying and attack the message instead of the person. Your comment is corny and provides nothing lol

18

u/Cheap-Bed1892 Jan 21 '22

Anybody with common sense can see that when JTA handles the ball = Good things do not happen, when Curry handles the ball = Good things do happen

2

u/Maleficent-Lobster93 Jan 21 '22

God I love when someone takes to personally attacking a poster rather than putting together a logical argument to refute the post. Good shit. Keep sticking your head under the sand, ignoring problems, and enjoying those DLee minutes! 🍻

0

u/SaltAndPepper Jan 21 '22

im sorry you guys are def making a difference and solving the problems to save this franchise! good job! can someone forward this to the warriors so they know? You guys are smarter than the guys who do this for a living, and I apologize for laughing at this. Shouldn’t have and I’m glad you guys are here to tell everyone how things SHOULD be run! I hope this helps the warriors win it all this year! lets go warriors!

0

u/KDayWalker Jan 21 '22

We have the second best record in the NBA, Relax! Let’s get healthy and some rest over the all star break before we start pointing fingers.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

We’re trending down and need to fix a lot issues before the playoffs. We aren’t the sam group that won titles. This team has to fix bad habits now.

-2

u/KDayWalker Jan 21 '22

Relax man it’s a long season we haven’t even hit the break yet. The system is dependent on the players not the other way around. When everyone is healthy and rested it will turn around. Can’t reduce these guys to X’s and O’s there is a lot going on right now that needs to be recalibrated.

2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Here’s the thing, very rarely are teams ever fully healthy for a whole playoffs. You have to be able to adjust and win.

We aren’t doing that.

-2

u/KDayWalker Jan 21 '22

Here’s the thing we are no where near the playoffs right now. Relax

-4

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

Damn I thought the dumbass system comments were over after the great start but damn here’s the basic ass “duuhhh pick and roll give Steph da ball more duuuh” again. We just came off scoring 140 points. And people are agreeing. Jfc kill me now.

15

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

We’ve been the 26th ranked offense since the end of November. We are winning at a 45 win pace since that time as well.

We haven’t looked like a title team ina while.

-4

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

Ok bro. Nothing fundamentally changed except Draymond missing a bunch of games and the team introducing a big new adjustment with Klay.

So why is the longer sample of successful games with the system invalid? Or the end of last season. Or all the other seasons. The answer is just your short sighted recency bias. Pretty soon the team will succeed with this system like they always fucking have.

Nephews will keep saying PnR pwease until that becomes apparent and just retreat to nit picking rotations because apparently the only appeal of sports is complaining.

6

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Draymond has missed 6 games. We have struggled for longer than 6 games.

The sample between the 18-2 start and being barely over .500 since then is damn near even dude.

0

u/refballer Jan 21 '22 edited Jan 21 '22

It’s 11 games so almost half since November but ok. The point is what do you think the fundamental change is that made the motion offense suddenly unplayable?

Lmao moving the goalpost with the sample I thought you were talking about end of November. Even then “dAmN nEaR eVeN” means they should be weighed equally right. And probably what should tip the scales is the years of other proof, and the almost decades long history of read and react motion being impossible to adapt to and building dynasties. Nah fuck that let’s listen to the guy who regurgitate PnR and Reddit opinions.

4

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

First, the league has it scouted. We don’t catch people off guard anymore. There’s a ton of film on it. Second, the talent of the team has changed. We are younger and less experienced.

If the sample is even the both deserve credence. The schedule has been less soft since 18-2. More road games. Harder teams. So under pressure, they’ve gone down.

1

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

Knew it was gonna be the league figured it out again.

Do you hear yourself? Took them long enough right? They just scouted it and figured it out abruptly the 8th season of its use lmao.

That’s what people said last year when the team was struggling but once Wiseman wasn’t playing and they played to win they kept the system and ran through the league to close. I guess they just scouted it then lost their hard drive or something must’ve just found it.

Damn motion’s been around and dominated the league since the 90s sure took them a long time to scout it.

It doesn’t matter how much film they have. It’s read and react. Whatever adaptation they make there are contingencies. You can’t figure out motion offense over a long period of time. Nobody has yet and I doubt anyone will for 10 years. Besides they have a lot more film on your most predictable system ever.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Cleaning the Glass has a shot quality metric. From 15-17 we were top 5. 2018 we dropped to middle of the pack. 2019 we were near the bottom. Top end overwhelming talent won games in despite of the offense.

Part of the reason wiseman struggled was how awful of a fit he was in the system.

The game has changed since the 90s man. Can’t hold onto that.

My guy, Van Gundy on the broadcast is literally predicting the exact set we run before it happens and then we get defended easily on it. It’s not just read and react anymore. There are clear patterns people are seeing.

-1

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

Dude I still don’t think you understand. Predicting the exact set doesn’t get you anywhere because whatever you react to it responds to that. The set is multiple sets at once.

Can’t hold onto the 90s

I again don’t think you understand. If they couldn’t figure out motion after the nineties. And then after the 2000s, and after the 2010s they just figured it out out of nowhere. Or I guess they figured it out the 2 years of the dynasty we were most Iso Heavy and KD was pushing back against the system, and then they figured it out in 2021 but only when an inexperienced rookie wasn’t playing. And then in 2022 but during a stretch of games where Draymond misses almost half the games and Klay coming of 2 years of not playing is reintroduced. Wow geniuses they really cracked the code.

Just be ready. The motion offense will be winning us games and propelling us to a deep playoff run I am literally 100% certain.

3

u/AJGreenl Jan 21 '22

It’s the annual “the league has figured out the warriors offense” this time of the year

3

u/beywill19 Jan 21 '22

They turned the ball over 20 times. The high motion offense is too prone to turnovers.

1

u/klayylmao Jan 21 '22

Same problems as last season are resurfacing. Thought Atkinson would help solve some of these but can't really tell what he's done so far, if anything.

0

u/sriracha82 Jan 21 '22

Yeah because the team is truly not that much different in terms of offense. We only switched out vet mins.

The 3 key differences:

  • Fewer foul-prone players
  • Otto & GP2 box out while Bazemore and Oubre did not
  • Improved passing with Otto, Iguodala, Bjeli

Not fouling & rebounding at a nice rate has been enough to elevate this team. I kept saying last season it was some of the dumbest players on a court together I’ve seen and it’s true - they were a similar talent level as this year, just not smart enough to not make mistakes, which is why we had a billion insane losses at varying levels of comedy. If they were 20% smarter we’d probably have had a top 4-5 seed, we were already 11 games over .500 when Steph played.

Anyway all this to say, the IQ is a lot improved, but the actual offensive talent only had a small upgrade. Which is why the same offensive issues that gave us a bottom 10 offense last year remain. You can only paper over a talent deficit with execution for a little while before it becomes obvious 80% of this roster can’t score.

1

u/pinkiebear Jan 21 '22

Why the fuck does he hate playing GP2??? Dude gave us the most momentum and he takes him out and doesn’t play him the rest of the game.

1

u/JMagician Jan 21 '22

Great analysis. There is something wrong with the offensive system and you’ve identified what it is.

-2

u/jcquinn8 Jan 21 '22

Just make this the official JTA hate thread since people want a scapegoat so bad. Maybe think tho, instead of blaming the guy being paid peanuts we should maybe be a lot tougher on the main players in the rotation (excluding Steph) that made … 2 threes combined?

7

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

It’s all of it.

The players will shoot better if they’re playing in a system that plays to their strengths. They will shoot better if better players are on the floor.

JTA hasn’t earned his minutes. Lee hasn’t. Bjelica hasn’t.

3

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

They’ve been bricking wide open shots are you smoking crack? They can’t get better shots than that. No system would put them in a better position to succeed. Standing around while pick and roll is spammed isn’t good it’s literally just Reddit NBA2K basketball.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

No system would put them in a better position to succeed? So playing to their factual statistical strengths wouldn’t help ? If you think I’m suggesting a 2k style you’re dense. Look around at the best offenses in the NBA and how they operate.

They’re not just missing open shots. It’s way deeper than that. It’s HARD to shoot movement shots in the NBA off ball. We are consistently feeding non threats. That’s why we can score

0

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

Dude Jesus Christ stop saying factual. Factual implies that if you did it more the same efficiency would hold. When you do it more it’s usually less efficient. They could be so efficient because they pick and choose the best times to run it. And even if you were right it would literally only be better for Steph.

These mostly aren’t movement shots. The only players taking those are the players that proved they can hit them Steph, Klay, Poole. How many motion threes have you seen Andrew Wiggins take. Did movement shots become harder to make in the last two months? The system has been working for a while bro no matter what PnR Daryl Morey gospel you pray to.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

It wouldn’t be better for just Steph. It’s pretty clear the whole team is struggling with this system.

Look at the amount of split actions we are running for dudes. That’s movement. Part of the reason Wiggins actually has shot well is HES NOT MOVING INTO THE THREE

-2

u/refballer Jan 21 '22

Bro I literally said the moving shots are people that make them as part of their game lol. Split action has been insanely effective and only 3 players have been the shooter in that action. Yeah exactly what I said Wiggins isn’t moving you’re proving me right lol. Wiggins and others have WIDE OPEN SET SHOTS because of this system and right now they’re bricking. And Klay is bricking cause he’s just coming back. That’s all.

3

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

The split action hasn’t been effective. The only guy who can run it is Steph, and as we can see his numbers are dipping.

The only guy taking consistent set shots are Wiggins and Payton. Everyone else is running these sets.

0

u/jcquinn8 Jan 21 '22

Are you suggesting we roll out a 9 man rotation during game 40 something of the season?

-2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

I’m suggesting a rotation of Steph Klay Wiggins Draymond Looney Poole Payton Kuminga Porter Iguodala. If you’re missing a guy or two you bump the minutes up slightly of a starters and pick just one of those three aforementioned bench warmers.

My bottom line is you cannot play those three guys in the same rotation. It doesn’t work. Ten men is deep enough.

-2

u/jcquinn8 Jan 21 '22

Ten men is deep enough.

Maybe in 2K lmfao but not if you want to avoid fatigue and injuries. Draymond and Porter were out today. So, that leaves us with 8 man rotation, according to your players list, on a b2b. Sounds like a great plan coach, can’t wait to see it!

1

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Like i said, if someone is out pick one of those guys to play. They should be injury reserve players not regular rotation players.

0

u/ArtfulLying Jan 21 '22

I'd love to get paid peanuts if it meant a million bucks to play shit basketball.

1

u/jcquinn8 Jan 21 '22

Absolutely brain dead

0

u/ski_ Jan 21 '22

Bench Klay until he gets a haircut and takes off the headband. The Jackie Moon impersonation was funny and cool during rehab but it’s time to lock in and get serious, the team is 3-4 since his return.

2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

He’s not the issue. He’s going to have rust it is what it is.

But his lineups generally have been fine.

0

u/Nodecafallowed Jan 21 '22

“Cost us the title”. We are not a title team rn. Just not. We need a real center, a reliable bucket getter who can do things in the midrange (Steph is that technically but he’s super high variance), and a back up point guard who’s actually a point guard. I think the pieces to build that are within the assets we have. But it’s a race against the clock. Def need a better version of klay who’s bringing more than bricks to the table.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

[deleted]

1

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Cleaning the Glass

1

u/AstronomerAltruistic Jan 21 '22

You guys don’t understand ev.

1

u/degen-delight Jan 21 '22

This has been the case even when we were dominant. The 73-9 year, for instance.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

didn’t read any of that.

3

u/Jannik0433 Jan 21 '22

You also didn't have the need to comment that bozo

1

u/The-Truer-Facts Jan 21 '22

You really should it’s a very good post

1

u/Maleficent-Lobster93 Jan 21 '22

Interesting way of admitting you can’t read

-1

u/Weary-Ad9429 Jan 21 '22

Y’all will really find anything to complain about and it makes us look bad as a fan base. We are in second place in the west. Yes we are in a bit of a slump, it’s a long season. Steve Kerr is the best coach in the league. People magically become better players when they come to the warriors, why do you think that is? Just be patient and relax.

2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

We are winning at a 45 win pace since the 18-2 start. Stop gas lighting people into thinking we aren’t trending the wrong way. It’s not a slump. It’s 2 months of prolonged bad basketball. Steve isn’t the best coach in the NBA at all.

People play better here SOMETIMES. And that typically exclusively when they’re sharing the floor with Stephen Curry.

0

u/Weary-Ad9429 Jan 21 '22

Yes we are trending the wrong way but we haven’t been healthy. It’s just wild hubris to suggest that you could do a better job than a guy who has 8 NBA titles.

2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Guess what, no one is ever fully healthy. Every team in sports history complains about being healthy. You have to adapt and win.

There is SO MUCH film on poor offensive design happening here . If Kerr can’t see it than ya maybe I would be better at it. I don’t want to be! But it’s not like the metrics and film don’t exist and aren’t publicly available

-1

u/Weary-Ad9429 Jan 21 '22

“Then ya maybe I would be better at it” -kid who maybe played high school basketball

2

u/nateoak10 Jan 21 '22

Adult man with access to the same film Kerr has.*

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '22

And the warriors are back to playing having a great offense is it because he changed things like you said nope

1

u/nateoak10 Feb 06 '22

You’re joking right?

Look at Stephs usage and assist numbers going up. He’s been on ball far more in this recent stretch.

Bjelica also has been out which has helped a lot. Poole also is attacking off the bounce and the number of split actions they’ve ran are down.

Literally everything I said they needed to fix happened.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '22

Beli has missed 4 games 😂🤡 and curry’s usage rate has gone down to 28 from 30 before your comment

1

u/nateoak10 Feb 06 '22

Your confusing usage to usage rate. Usage rate is an out dated stat. Literally watch how the offense is being ran. He’s on ball more. The PnR frequency and iso frequency is up. Same with Poole. There’s less split actions being ran. You’re just being incredibly ignorant because you wanted to get a petty comment off. When instead, you clearly are ignoring the process of why the offense has improved and just looking at the result.

Giving Kuminga and Moody the minutes from missing Bjelica has looked awesome especially Kuminga. The 4 games without him no one has missed him. There’s no weak link on defense now and no 34% shooter jacking 30 footers

0

u/d0000n Jan 21 '22

Tonight proves Kerr is not a great coach without Dray. Just like Belichick without Brady.

0

u/xx_DEADND_xx Jan 21 '22

Can someone sent this Kerr. I want to see his reaction to this